38 Single Action 2d Model

Ken NC

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A 38 Single Action I purchased from a local shop for 100 even. Significant cosmetic wear but seems excellent mechanically. Sharp rifling but some pitting in barrel. Any suggestions on whether to shoot or not and, if yes to shoot, what loads to shoot (hand, factory) would be most welcome.
 

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Very nice catch for a century note.
You can use either one, your 38 S&W handloads or factory ammo as the factory ammo should be loaded down below 700 FPS.
 
The only thing I was told about shooting mine...the grips are pretty pricey...you may not want to risk damage....but of coarse, you risk damage when you remove them too! Your choice.

Bob
 
If you shoot it using modern ammo, do so sparingly. They were designed for black powder cartridges and smokeless ammo WILL stress the gun and eventually do some damage to it. FWIW, I owned both a First and Second model single action .38 many years ago, and DID shoot them very occasionally. MOST of teh examples I have seen over the last 45 years are worn, but most are also still functioning well..I really like these little guns - they made them so very well in those days and I get the feeling many people relied on them for protection in the late part of the 19th century and long after that.
Grips were Guta Percha (a hard rubber) and WILL crack and crumble at the slightest provocation, and there are none left. BE VERY CAREFUL with the grips and NEVER pry them off with anything other than a fingernail.

mark
 
The point being made about the grips is that those with the block lettered S&W are unique to the 2nd Model SA. They were not found on any other gun and, I believe, are the only correct grips for the 2nd Model. If both panels are undamaged they are probably worth what you paid for the whole gun......
 
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If you shoot it using modern ammo, do so sparingly. They were designed for black powder cartridges and smokeless ammo WILL stress the gun and eventually do some damage to it. FWIW, I owned both a First and Second model single action .38 many years ago, and DID shoot them very occasionally.
mark

I have to disagree with your comments about modern 38 S&W ammo. This ammo is very mild and is slower than a full load of BP. Modern 38 S&W factory is loaded to function in vintage revolvers, since this caliber has not been available in handguns other than the 38-200 since the early 1900s. My testing has shown that the velocities of factory ammo is almost 200fps slower than original BP rounds. Remington 38 S&W 146grain averages 537 fps and original 38 S&W BP averages almost 700 fps. The 2nd Model 38 S&W SA is really not made any different than the 3rd Model or Model 1891, which was manufactured into the twentieth century and shot smokeless powder for the last 100 years. Felt recoil on factory smokeless ammo is much less than original BP loads, so I am not concerned about the ammo causing any type of failure in these revolvers.

I do agree with you that shooting any revolver that is over 100 years old should not be done regularly, since if you break a part, replacement is difficult if not impossible to find.
 
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I agree with glowe on this point. After making the statement that modern smokeless .38 S&W ammunition is unsafe or likely to cause damage, it is usually followed by some statement like "Smokeless powder produces a dangerously high pressure spike that black powder does not." If there is any evidence of truth to that statement as it applies to factory .38 S&W loads, I have never seen any. And I have looked hard. And in the many times that I have asked for anyone to provide authoritative proof of the existence of the "dangerous pressure spike" with smokeless powder, I have never received an answer. And I have never seen a warning on a factory box of .38 S&W smokeless ammunition that it is dangerous to use in the older revolvers of the black powder era.

This is hardly proof, but I do have an internal ballistics program called Quickload. I have no way of knowing what propellant or what charge the factories use, but jiggling the parameters to get an approximate MV of 650 ft/sec from a 146 grain lead bullet from 4" barrel graphically indicates there is no sharp pressure spike, but a shallow rise and fall, and that peak chamber pressure is a little over 8,000 psi with about any typical smokeless pistol powder one would care to use. And Quickload typically overestimates peak chamber pressure as compared to actual piezo gauge measurements. In any event, a peak pressure of 8,000 psi is low for any cartridge.
 
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The big problem I have with shooting these old guys it simple - you have no idea how much they have been stressed before you got them. The 2 that I had years ago I did shoot and really liked doing it, but I would not recommend doing so often. There ain't no more.

mark
 
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