andrewstorm
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2011
- Messages
- 55
- Reaction score
- 5
I have read many posts that say the cases are nearly identical can I load a 38 sc case same as a 38s&w case with black powder?
interchangeable? 38s&w / 38 short colt blk powder cartridge
- Thread starter andrewstorm
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
DWalt
Member
If you are referring to reloading only, and using black powder, you can use the same load. Typically, black powder loads will fill up all of the available case volume under the bullet. You can fire .38 SC cartridges in a .38 S&W chamber, but not vice-versa. You can use .38 SC in any .38 Special or .357 Magnum revolver, as the .38 SC is dimensionally identical to those except for length. Why do you want to use BP?
BP cartridges are the easiest reload around. No matter what size the case, you load to 1/16" above the seated bullet base and are set to go.
OP
andrewstorm
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2011
- Messages
- 55
- Reaction score
- 5
I thought it may be risky to use 38sw reload data in a 38 short colt cases even with cowboy loads or 777 2f.pyrodex
DWalt
Member
I am assuming you want to use the .38 SC case loads in a .38 S&W revolver. That's fine, and such loads will work OK, but the standard .38 Special bullet is .357-.358" and is slightly undersize for use in a .38 S&W revolver. You should use .361-.362" lead bullets, although I have never had any problems in using the smaller diameter .38 Special bullets. If you have never loaded BP, you should be aware that it will foul up your gun in a hurry and about the only way to clean it is to give the whole gun a bath in water. If you have used it, you will know all about that already. BP is unnecessary. Light smokeless loads are perfectly safe and satisfactory, even in old guns. For years my standard .38 S&W load has been 3.0 grains of Unique and a 145 grain lead bullet (.361"). If you want to use a .358 bullet, that will probably work. Hollow-based 148 grain wadcutters will work the best. Just don't attempt to seat them flush with the case mouth. Leave them out about halfway.
Your problem will be finding .38 SC brass. I think Starline still makes it, but they also still make .38 S&W. So why not use .38 S&W? It's probably easier to find. You can also shorten .38 Special brass, but that's a lot of work.
Your problem will be finding .38 SC brass. I think Starline still makes it, but they also still make .38 S&W. So why not use .38 S&W? It's probably easier to find. You can also shorten .38 Special brass, but that's a lot of work.
wiley
Member
Base of brass diameter (just ahead of rim) is .386" for 38S&W. It is a diameter of .376" for colt. Depending on who did the chambering job, 38 S&W brass may not fit a Colt. That's gun show wisdom from buying a pricey box of Colt ammo that wasn't!
All BP and BP substitutes are meant to fill the case. Never leave air space between the base of the bullet and the powder. This applies to T7, Pyrodex, BP, and all other BP substitutes. Do not load just by stated grains of powder, since many modern cases hold less powder than the old BP cases and volume may also vary by case maker.
I agree with DWalt that smokeless powder is just fine with these revolvers and a lot cleaner burning. Smokeless is non-corrosive and also does not take soap and water to clean up. I use the standard published data for Trail Boss and a 145 grain round nose bullet cast by Missouri Bullet Company. They provide a .361", 145 grain bullet.
I think we are assuming you are loading for a S&W, but if you are loading for an antique 38 Short Colt, you have other issues. The original bullet for the Colt was a .361" heeled bullet, while the 38 S&W was an inside lubed bullet. I don't know when Colt changed their cartridge to inside lubrication, but when that happened, the bullet diameter was reduced to .357". A little more information on the 38 Short Colt rounds
from a knowlegable ammo collector I ran across.
38 S&W and .38 Short Colt are not interchangeable cartridges. The .38 Short Colt is actually the parent case for the .38 Long Colt, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, and .357 Maximum and thusly is smaller in diameter than the .38 S&W. While the .38 Short Colt did originally use the same .360-.361 bullet diameter as the .38 S&W, it used heel-based bullets while the S&W used the more modern inside-lubricated bullets. When loaded with inside-lubricated bullets, the .38 Short Colt will have a bullet diameter of .357-.358.
.38 S&W ammo probably would not even fit in a .38 Short Colt chamber due to it's larger case diameter. While .38 Short Colt ammo would probably fit in a .38 S&W chamber, it would almost certainly bulge or split the case if fired and most would consider such a practice to be unsafe.
DWalt
Member
".38 S&W ammo probably would not even fit in a .38 Short Colt chamber due to it's larger case diameter. While .38 Short Colt ammo would probably fit in a .38 S&W chamber, it would almost certainly bulge or split the case if fired and most would consider such a practice to be unsafe."
You never know. It's been reported here that some .38 Special revolvers have sloppy enough chambers to accept .38 S&W cartridges. None of mine will.
Regarding the safety of firing .38 SC in a .38 S&W revolver, that's not a problem. The diameter of the latter's chambers is a bit larger, but not enough to split. The cartridge conversion manuals say that usable .38 S&W cases can be made by cutting .38 Special brass to .38 S&W length.
Back when I first started handloading the .38 S&W about 40 years years ago, it was done with cut-off .38 Special brass (and .357" bullets), which is essentially identical to the .38 SC. I never remember having a case split. I eventually accumulated enough .38 S&W brass to make using the cut-off .38 Special cases unnecessary. But I still reload and shoot .38 SC in .38 Special revolvers just for the novelty of it, having come into several hundred .38 SC cases a few years ago that I couldn't let go to waste.
You never know. It's been reported here that some .38 Special revolvers have sloppy enough chambers to accept .38 S&W cartridges. None of mine will.
Regarding the safety of firing .38 SC in a .38 S&W revolver, that's not a problem. The diameter of the latter's chambers is a bit larger, but not enough to split. The cartridge conversion manuals say that usable .38 S&W cases can be made by cutting .38 Special brass to .38 S&W length.
Back when I first started handloading the .38 S&W about 40 years years ago, it was done with cut-off .38 Special brass (and .357" bullets), which is essentially identical to the .38 SC. I never remember having a case split. I eventually accumulated enough .38 S&W brass to make using the cut-off .38 Special cases unnecessary. But I still reload and shoot .38 SC in .38 Special revolvers just for the novelty of it, having come into several hundred .38 SC cases a few years ago that I couldn't let go to waste.
I have used lots of 38 Special cases and all mine bulge when fired in my 38 S&W cases, plus it is hard to get those .360 bullets seated in the cases the first time. They did not split either and the second and succeeding loads worked fine. I do find that shooting .357 bullets does affect the accuracy in 38 S&W.
The OP has not said if he is shooting a S&W, antique Colt, or a vintage model, since the bore diameter changed when Colt went with the smaller bullet. I wonder what year Colt made the switch?
The OP has not said if he is shooting a S&W, antique Colt, or a vintage model, since the bore diameter changed when Colt went with the smaller bullet. I wonder what year Colt made the switch?
OP
andrewstorm
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2011
- Messages
- 55
- Reaction score
- 5
This question was because I came upon a few 38 sc cases and measured them and they measured same as 38 s&w,then I read that you could safely reload with 38s&w data in those fire formed colt cases,and I Was trying to get an amen.I Know from cattridge collecting that 38centre fire was a designation used for all 38 short revolvers regardless of manufacturer in the blacpowder era,and I wondered if a load of 3grains of unique could be used in a short colt case in a s&w
Last edited:
Thanks for the clarification, but the same issues remain. If you have the .357" short Colt cases, you basically have short 38 Specials. The .357" bullet diameter will probably not give satisfactory results in a 38 S&W revolver. I have done it and recovered bullets that have no rifling marks on them. I also get key-holing from time to time with the smaller bullets.
The volume of the case would be almost the same, so the case could be loaded the same as a 38 S&W.
I load 38 S&W cases with 145 grain, .361" round nose bullets and have shot 3 grains of Unique. They ran at an average of 640 fps out of a 6" barrel.
The volume of the case would be almost the same, so the case could be loaded the same as a 38 S&W.
I load 38 S&W cases with 145 grain, .361" round nose bullets and have shot 3 grains of Unique. They ran at an average of 640 fps out of a 6" barrel.
OP
andrewstorm
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2011
- Messages
- 55
- Reaction score
- 5
I imagine that in an antique a 38sc/sw case full of blk pwdr would yeild about 650 fps mv. and plenty plinkin pleasure.and no chance of overload.I like the smoke
Last edited:
