Not Kinda Rare, REALLY Rare .38 Safety Hammerless 5th Model

Rick Bowles · Jun 6, 2019

According to SCS&W barrel lengths for the .38 Safety were 3-1/4",4",5" and 6" with some found with the scarce 2" (bicycle gun) length. A few, reportedly 15 or so, were made with 1.5". A couple known examples are in the 25xxxx serial range. While the .38 Safety Hammerless has a front sight forged with the barrel, a characteristic of the short barrel is a pined front sight. Additionally no caliber or address markings. The number on this example 259097 is found on the butt, cylinder, barrel and latch.

murphydog · Jun 6, 2019

Cool gun! The barrel/cylinder assembly (I guess the “upper” in AR-15 speak) looks a lot different finish-wise than the frame. Matching numbers?

Bob L · Jun 6, 2019

Now that is one sharp looking hammerless? Any chance we can expect a range report?

merl67 · Jun 6, 2019

murphydog said:
Cool gun! The barrel/cylinder assembly (I guess the “upper” in AR-15 speak) looks a lot different finish-wise than the frame. Matching numbers?

I agree with Alan do the numbers all match?
Just noticed the high serial number and Made In USA has to be one of the last ones made since SCSW list 242981 as being the approximate last serial number.

Rick Bowles · Jun 6, 2019

merl67 said:
I agree with Alan do the numbers all match?
Just noticed the high serial number and Made In USA has to be one of the last ones made since SCSW list 242981 as being the approximate last serial number.

C'mon guys, this isn't Playboy! You should read the post as well as look at the images. The numbers match and it's a 5th Model who's numbers went from 220000 to 261493.

gmborkovic · Jun 6, 2019

Rick, nice little SH. When you post with kinda rare, have a Letter to back it up.

merl67 · Jun 6, 2019

Rick Bowles said:
C'mon guys, this isn't Playboy! You should read the post as well as look at the images. The numbers match and it's a 5th Model who's numbers went from 220000 to 261493.

I stand corrected...never picked up a Playboy so can't comment on that. The frame finish is different than the barrel/cylinder or appears so to me. It is a rare gun if it is indeed a bicycle one, and not a cut down one...

deadin · Jun 6, 2019

As Mike said, only a letter will tell.......

45Wheelgun · Jun 6, 2019

It will letter. The gun is correct.

Rick Bowles · Jun 6, 2019

Thanks Dave.

glowe · Jun 7, 2019

Rick Bowles said:
C'mon guys, this isn't Playboy! You should read the post as well as look at the images . . .

Please re-read what you post yourself, since it seems quite defensive sounding to me. Let's face it, any good gunsmith could shorten a barrel and pin a front sight, while removing the barrel address. The finish on the barrel assembly is obviously different than what is on the frame in both color and condition. As noted above, without a letter is is just well founded speculation.

There are three 1.5" guns in the SWCA database with serial numbers in the 257,XXX, 258,XXX, 260,XXX ranges, so your gun fits into the known manufacturing era, but 20,000 other guns made in this timeframe were factory original standard barrel length guns.

Get the letter and we all hope you got the real deal.

Rick Bowles · Jun 7, 2019

Gary, I had no intention of sounding defensive anymore than you intended to sound dismissive. I was trying to make a lighthearted response to Merl67 asking if the numbers match (which is in my original post) and his misquoting the SCS&W regarding the serial range of the 5th model. Yes, the barrel looks refinished relative to the frame but it is what it is. I understand and appreciate a healthy degree of skepticism when it comes to rare guns, I just thought you folks might like to see it.

gmborkovic · Jun 7, 2019

Hello Rick, pls. be prudent with the usage of the term "rare" at this point of the mystery. At best it is a "potentially rare" gun, to the right collector.
Just wait and come back with a Letter. Lack of barrel roll marks and condition,kind of raises a brow. I hope it comes back as correct and wish you luck, cute little gun.

Rick Bowles · Jun 7, 2019

Mike, I rarely use the word "rare"

I wouldn't have used it here unless I was absolutely, unequivocally certain. I wouldn't have shared images of the gun here (of all places) unless I was positive it shipped with a 1-1/2" barrel.

Leroy Thompson · Jun 7, 2019

For what it's worth I own 10-12 Bicycle revolvers including 5 .38 S&W, one of which is a 1 1/2" one. What is interesting is that at least half of them letter to West Virginia. Maybe coal execs slipped them into their vest pockets.

squawberryman · Jun 7, 2019

No matter what, it is a beautiful example of when they sat down and hand fitted things. I'd love to experience breaking it open. My perfected third model 22 is in a league of its' own, or maybe this one's in it too. Nice job. Please tell once it letters sir.

cfreger · Jun 7, 2019

The question I have is do you refinish the rest of the gun to match, or leave it as-is? While I respect old objects found in their original condition, what should you do with a collectible that is at best half-original?

Also, are the grips two different colors? The photo posted looks brown on one side; black on the other. Was it that both sides were originally black but the "brown-ish" side was face-up in a display case and exposed to light?

gmborkovic · Jun 7, 2019

Rick, I hope it letters. It will be another little treasure that was made by true craftsmen. Best of luck. Mike

M14sRock · Jun 7, 2019

That is very cool, and I suddenly want one. Looking forward to the Letter.

Marshal Too Sweet · Jun 7, 2019

In a world of Plastics and MIM, this just turns my crank !

Not Kinda Rare, REALLY Rare .38 Safety Hammerless 5th Model

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