S&W 38 Double Action 5th Model
- Thread starter jsmith
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I just picked up this little gem at a gun show just earlier this year. It's an S&W 38 Double Action 5th Model; 5 shot Top-Break Revolver; Serial #540809; Caliber - 38 S&W; 4 inch barrel; nickel finish w/blued trigger, guard, hammer and top strap; round butt frame; fixed sights; and factory S&W pearl grips. This gun is nearly in mint condition. Just a tiny bit of nickel flaking around the edge of the bottom of the left side plate. It came out of a private collection and appears to have been used very little. This is a scarce gun made from 1909-1911 with just a little over 15,000 made. Serial numbers range from 539001-554077. Just sent away for the S&W archive letter for this gun.
cflier
Member
Very nice gun jsmith. Any more in that private collection? You might want to get them while they are available. You don't find them like that every day.
Mark
Mark
Rigmover
Member
Very Nice indeed!! i have the same kind of grips on my Hammerless .32 2nd model & the .38 4th model got a love them old Top Breaks and there fun to shoot too..
That was the only gun that came out of that private collection cflier. I already asked. The dealer from whom I bought it off of told me that the guy who sold it to him didn't really want to part with it but he needed the money due to the hard times.
This was actually a lucky find on my part. The dealer selling it had it miss-identified as being a 4th Model and not a 5th. The 5th Model's are quite scarce with just a little over 15,000 made. This is a fact that I did not mention to the dealer. The only way to tell is from the serial number. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th Model's are quite common. I did my research on it and putting a price on it was difficult. In excellent condition the S&W Catalog and Blue Book lists it at about $450 while Flayderman's list $750. The dealer was asking $800. I paid $700 after a lot of haggling over it and I believe it was well worth it, especially for its condition and the fact it has factory pearl grips. Usually these guns are almost always found with black hard rubber grips. Guns this scarce are just hard to find, let alone to buy!
I sent away for the S&W archive letter. I'm rather curious to see when my gun was made, if it was shipped with the factory pearl grips and where it originally came from. Who knows? It may have been ordered straight from the factory by someone. It will date to either 1909 or 1910. The serial number on my gun puts it about halfway through the production run.
I will post the letter when I receive it. Not sure how long it will take to get it.
This was actually a lucky find on my part. The dealer selling it had it miss-identified as being a 4th Model and not a 5th. The 5th Model's are quite scarce with just a little over 15,000 made. This is a fact that I did not mention to the dealer. The only way to tell is from the serial number. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th Model's are quite common. I did my research on it and putting a price on it was difficult. In excellent condition the S&W Catalog and Blue Book lists it at about $450 while Flayderman's list $750. The dealer was asking $800. I paid $700 after a lot of haggling over it and I believe it was well worth it, especially for its condition and the fact it has factory pearl grips. Usually these guns are almost always found with black hard rubber grips. Guns this scarce are just hard to find, let alone to buy!
I sent away for the S&W archive letter. I'm rather curious to see when my gun was made, if it was shipped with the factory pearl grips and where it originally came from. Who knows? It may have been ordered straight from the factory by someone. It will date to either 1909 or 1910. The serial number on my gun puts it about halfway through the production run.
I will post the letter when I receive it. Not sure how long it will take to get it.
Here's some more pictures of my 38 Double Action 5th Model. This is the best I can do. My camera does not have the resolution to capture fine details such as the markings or serial numbers.
Just recently I came across the dealer from whom I bought the gun off of at another show. He still insists it is a 4th model when the serial number clearly puts it in more than halfway through the 5th model serial number range. He told me that he contacted Smith & Wesson and they told him it was a 4th model.
All the reference books that I use, including the SCSW3 confirms the serial number as being a 5th model.
Just wondering? One possibility does come to mind. My gun could be a transitional piece from the 4th to 5th models. This would not be unheard of. Parts were not always used right away at the factory.
Just waiting for my letter from Roy Jinks to find out everything.
Any thoughts about this out there...
Just recently I came across the dealer from whom I bought the gun off of at another show. He still insists it is a 4th model when the serial number clearly puts it in more than halfway through the 5th model serial number range. He told me that he contacted Smith & Wesson and they told him it was a 4th model.
All the reference books that I use, including the SCSW3 confirms the serial number as being a 5th model.
Just wondering? One possibility does come to mind. My gun could be a transitional piece from the 4th to 5th models. This would not be unheard of. Parts were not always used right away at the factory.
Just waiting for my letter from Roy Jinks to find out everything.
Any thoughts about this out there...
opoefc
US Veteran
Very nice gun, worth the money if the grips are original to the gun. If so, the serial number of the gun will be penciled on the back of the right grip panel. The serial number for the change fron 4th to 5th model is suggested to be 539,000, however that's the best estimated from observed examples. S&W never did anything at an exact serial number as there is always an overlap in production when an engineering change was made. The easiest way to tell a 4th model from a 5th model for the .38DAs is the the front sight blade. If it's pinned, it's a 4th model, if It's forged it's a 5th model. Of course, that's assuming the barrel serial number matches the numbers on the rest of the gun.
Most gun manufacturers never did anything at an exact serial number. S&W is no exception. All the books say that the 5th model starts at #539001.
The front sight blade on my gun is forged to the barrel and NOT pinned. All the numbers on my gun match. I know, I checked before I bought it.
The grips are another story. I know on rubber and wood grips the serial number of the gun is either scratched, penciled or stamped onto one or both of the insides of the grips. But I don't know if they did that on special order grips, such as factory pearls or ivories. I've asked around at gun shows and no one, not even dealers, can seem to answer that question. One old dealer that I did talk to told me that sometimes on special orders they would ship the gun with the standard grips on them and include the special order grips in the box. You had to put them on yourself. I did take my grips off and check and there is nothing on the inside of either of them. If they were penciled, it could have easily been rubbed off during a cleaning if the grips were taken off.
Even if the grips aren't original to the gun, they still add value to it. They are, in fact, S&W factory pearl grips. And they compliment the nearly mint condition of the gun quite well.
All these reasons is why I am waiting for my factory letter. Might be a few months before I get it. What ever the outcome I will post it here!
The front sight blade on my gun is forged to the barrel and NOT pinned. All the numbers on my gun match. I know, I checked before I bought it.
The grips are another story. I know on rubber and wood grips the serial number of the gun is either scratched, penciled or stamped onto one or both of the insides of the grips. But I don't know if they did that on special order grips, such as factory pearls or ivories. I've asked around at gun shows and no one, not even dealers, can seem to answer that question. One old dealer that I did talk to told me that sometimes on special orders they would ship the gun with the standard grips on them and include the special order grips in the box. You had to put them on yourself. I did take my grips off and check and there is nothing on the inside of either of them. If they were penciled, it could have easily been rubbed off during a cleaning if the grips were taken off.
Even if the grips aren't original to the gun, they still add value to it. They are, in fact, S&W factory pearl grips. And they compliment the nearly mint condition of the gun quite well.
All these reasons is why I am waiting for my factory letter. Might be a few months before I get it. What ever the outcome I will post it here!
The wait is over! Just got my factory letter today in the mail and just under a months time.
I am quite pleased with the results of the letter. The dealer who sold me the gun was wrong and I was right. The gun is indeed a 38 Double Action 5th Model. It even confirms that the pearl grips on my gun are factory original. As we all know pearl grips were special order.
To protect my privacy and to discourage any offers on buying my guns, I used a small piece of black paper and covered up my name and address on the letter.
Here is the letter:
The hardware store mentioned in the letter was in business from 1843 up until the 1960's.
I am quite pleased with the results of the letter. The dealer who sold me the gun was wrong and I was right. The gun is indeed a 38 Double Action 5th Model. It even confirms that the pearl grips on my gun are factory original. As we all know pearl grips were special order.
To protect my privacy and to discourage any offers on buying my guns, I used a small piece of black paper and covered up my name and address on the letter.
Here is the letter:
The hardware store mentioned in the letter was in business from 1843 up until the 1960's.
For any of the history buffs out there, here is a couple of sites out there about the history of the Shapleigh Hardware Company:
http://shapleigh0.tripod.com/s...ssociation/id13.html
http://www.thckk.org/history/shapleigh-history.pdf
http://shapleigh0.tripod.com/s...ssociation/id13.html
http://www.thckk.org/history/shapleigh-history.pdf
rayb
US Veteran
Happy Birthday to the 5th Model with Pearl grips
