Victory with PC CD markings on sideplate

Ben Cartwright SASS · Oct 16, 2009

I just picked up a Victory, I will post pictures tonight I am at work right now, it is really really nice, came with original holster and seems to be about 98%+, if it has been shot, it wasn't more than a couple times, there is no wear at all and I had to wipe the oil rag into the dark recesses to get even a hint of soot.

One thing I noticed and I am not sure how it affects the value, on the left side plate at the very back above the grip, are the markings

PC
CD

they are stamped in the metal just like that. I wonder what the signifigance might be?

Jeff

DRB · Oct 16, 2009

PC is most likely the initials of town or organization. Panama City comes to mind as a likely town.

CD=Civil Defense

Pretty common to find Victory models given out as Civil Defense guns.

Little impact on value one way or the other. If you could figure out who or what PC is it would help.

Ben Cartwright SASS · Oct 16, 2009

I am planning to request a factory letter, that may help or not.

opoefc · Oct 16, 2009

Jeff, Pls. post some pics of the stamping. Most Civil Defense guns have the markings put on with an electic pencil. Are the letters indiviually stamped or from a stamp die? Any other stampings or markings anywhere on the gun, including "made in USA," S or P stamps, caliber, etc. ? Are the stocks numbered to the gun? What are the symbols stamped on the grip frame? Thanks, Ed. #15

Ben Cartwright SASS · Oct 16, 2009

Pictures of my "new" Victory

Here are some of the shots of the new Victory. A serial number is stamped (by a gorilla) on the inside of the grip, I can swear the last 3 digits are 139 (serial no is V424139) It appears as if it may never have been shot more than a couple times. Also note the PC CD stamping.

Ben Cartwright SASS · Oct 16, 2009

Lets try the pics again I only got links

John Wyatt · Oct 16, 2009

Victory

I have no idea what the stamped letters stand for, but your ser# is just under a 1000 below my Victory ( V425132 ) which shipped the the US Navy in California in October 1943. The letters could be a post war user as many of these revolvers were sold surplus in later years.

Ben Cartwright SASS · Oct 16, 2009

They are brothers!

The letters could very well be added later. This one seems to have not really seen the light of day.

mikepriwer · Oct 16, 2009

Jeff

I think the gun is the wrong finish for an original Victory. From that,
and the fit around the sideplate, I think the gun has been refinished.
That is why it looks nice.

Later, Mike Priwer

Ben Cartwright SASS · Oct 16, 2009

The pictures were taken right after I oiled it, also the shadow box with the blue background make it look blued, it is a sort of matte black, black magic kind of finish, reminds me a bit of my lend-lease, although that one is all but worn off.

I am really bummed out that I might have gotten ripped off and wasted my money. I will take it to the NH gun show tomorrow and ask around about it, do you think if I bring to Don Mullen (?) the SWCA member from Springfield, at the show he is running in November at the S&W factory, would he or people there be able to tell?

Here is a shot of it in a different light

Ben Cartwright SASS · Oct 16, 2009

Actually that is the same as the one above

Here is another one

Ben Cartwright SASS · Oct 16, 2009

If is a refinish job, what would it be worth $150-$200? It has an unbelievable bore so should make a good shooter and then I wouldn't mind the kids beating on it.
I suppose there are two ways to look at this, first I blew more money in Vegas in my one trip there, and two I will try to learn even more before wasting my money again. It has gone overnight from the gun I was leery of shooting to one I would take to the range this Sunday when the kids asked to go shooting even if it rains, it will be my rain gun. I think most people probably have learned hard lessons and bought things for more than they were worth, this is my learning gun
It is still a nice looking gun, we will see how it shoots Sunday.

I feel so stupid to let my emotions rule and buying the gun.

Will the Factory letter be able to tell me what finish it left the factory with?

JSR III · Oct 16, 2009

Jeff, hello from Framingham. Do you have a close up of the initials stamped on the side? In looking at the pictures closely, I don't see a refinish. Remember that the guns were manufactured just prior to, during and after the war. On page 128 of Charlie Pates book "U.S. Handguns of WW2" at the beginning of the paragraph in italics "no inspector was stationed at the plant, and quality of revolvers suffered as a result" and at the bottom of the same paragraph, "During the early production,as much as 30% of the day's production was rejected for various reasons." In the paragraph above it states, "a significant departure from the high quality finish standards for which the firm had long been known."

Remember, the company was coming from the brink of near bankruptcy to full production to support the war effort. Polish and finish quality was not as important as it once had been. IMHO

charlie sherrill · Oct 16, 2009

I started as a LEO in 1969. I didn't have a revolver when I started so the chief ,who was a WWII vet loaned me a Victory from the department arsenal until I could earn enough money to buy my own. He told me to go through a box of about 12 or 15 of them and I picked up a matte blue Navy marked Victory. These were military surplus that probably came from nearby Camp Shelby. I carried it until I got my first paycheck and borrowed $85.00 from a finance company for a model 10-5 that I got from a pawn shop. I didn't like the lanyard ring then. I do now as I have a few of them in my safe. Your Victory may not be refinished as I think some of the early ones were matte blue. A letter will tell.

digi-shots · Oct 16, 2009

I don't think it's been refinished... you can see some wear here and there, especially on the muzzle.

Here's a pic of a Victory I have that was also used by a Civil Defense unit... the name has been scratched into the finish. It's a matte blue/grey finish.

And another pic of another Victory... maybe you can compare the finish to yours:

Ben Cartwright SASS · Oct 16, 2009

Charlie, I was a Navy Photographers Mate, 72-76.

It is definitely a matte finish, or appears so to me. Maybe I was over reacting before, it was just my luck seems to run that way, although the Jungle Carbine I got for $200 is fantastic shape.

Anyway, I will send off for a factory letter on this one, the 1917 I got last week and the lend lease, both of those are fine to good at best but I like em.
I will wait to see what they say, I will also take it to the show tomorrow and to Don's show in November at S&W and we will try to see what is what. I won't give up hope but I will try to follow my new montra, "know before you go, and if in doubt do without"
I ordered the US Handguns book and the Jinks book and will do more learning. What ever the outcome this is an good learning experiance.

Here is a closeup of the PC CD letter on the side of the gun and also a good view of the finish.

TomcatPC · Oct 16, 2009

Hello

Nice Victory Model, that would not be one of the ones my Dad carried in the War? LOL

Anyway, I'd just be happy to actually have a real live Victory Model (.38" Special calibre version, I already have a .380" calibre version) someday, even if it had been refinished.

Looking forward to hearing what the letter says. Too bad the letter can't tell which unit the revolver was sent to.

Also, and I know this is a Smith & Wesson forum, so I'm sorry for bringing up "outside issues" LOL, but great job on finding the $200 No.5 Mk.I Rifle. Being third generation English/American I like Lee Enfield Rifles my self. In about two weeks I am going to be picking up a 1943 BSA No.4 Mk.I, looking forward to that.

Back to Victory Models. I work at a sporting goods chain store, today I took a few minutes and checked out computer database of stores. I found two Victory Models in the nation-wide "system". I asked my manager to contact one of the stores and have one sent to our store, and if it is in decent shape, etc. I can put it on lay-away. I am under no obligation to buy it is it turns out to be crap. So, I will asking questions later this week, I do have the serial number.

Anyway, have fun with you Victory Model.
Thanks
Mark

Ben Cartwright SASS · Oct 18, 2009

I did a quick Google search on PC CD and came up with PCCD - The Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. They train Police and Deputy Sheriffs etc. They are established in 1978.
Could they have gotten some .38's for training?

If they did would they have wanted military finishes? Could it be an arsenal refinish job?

I am not doing anything with this revolver until I get the factory letter (how long do they take to get) and see the finish it left the factory with and where it went.

Anyhow, I can see that whether it has the wrong finish or it is correct, it is in great shape, I haven't seen may bores that are better even on new guns!
I put a light down the bore and it seems to be a mirror finish.

No matter what it turns out to be, it will be a good addition to my collection.

twaits · Oct 18, 2009

I think this is a great revolver no matter what it turns out to be.
But I hope the factory letter tells you what you want to hear. Please let us know when you get the letter back.

opoefc · Oct 18, 2009

jeff, According to the Springfield Rsearch records, some close serial numbers to your gun were sent to Canada, as Lend Lease guns ( and marked as US Property, as yours is) . So the PCCD stamp may be for a Canadian user or unit. Ed # 15

Victory with PC CD markings on sideplate

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