Inside a 1902

DCWilson · Apr 17, 2010

The .38 HE Model of 1902 that I posted in a separate thread was pretty gummed up inside. I knew from the feel of the action that it needed a major cleaning, so after I picked it up today I tore it apart.

When I got the sideplate off, I saw lots of congealed oil with embedded fibers and dust, but not a lot of carbon residue. That is consistent with the other evidence that this gun was not fired very much.

In this photo, note the old style leaf spring that powers the trigger return. The rebound slide mechanism didn't come in until the Model of 1905.

When I got the parts out and cleaned up the frame, I was amazed to see how much smoother an interior the company produced a century ago. In the 1930s and 1940s (and afterward), frame interiors were left rougher where there was no chance of coming in conflict with a moving part.

And after I got all the assemblies cleaned and reinstalled, the whole gun looked a lot better.

Sideplates were sure different back then. Holes for some of the pins and studs are in different positions, and there is no slot for a hammer block.

With a few interruptions, the clean-up was about a three hour job. There was a lot of toothbrush and toothpick work involved.

Lefkiguy · Apr 17, 2010

Great look inside an oldtimer.

handejector · Apr 17, 2010

Don't you love the chafing bushings?
How about the screw retaining the plunger in the bolt?

Get yourself a coffee or quart jar, and a quart/gallon of acetone. Fashion a "basket" from a small can with a wire handle, so you can soak the guts while you scrub the frame. The acetone rots your liver quicker than cheap booze, so only breathe it on Saturday nights.

Keep it off your skin. Volatile it is, so don't use it around pilot lights and kerosene lamps.

BTW- the rebound slide appears with the 1905-1st Change.

I forgot-
Note there is NO double action "takeover" on the trigger, so the action is not truly "long". It became longer with later changes.

DCWilson · Apr 17, 2010

Chafing bushings -- I knew I was looking at something different, but I didn't know what to call them.

Thanks for the rebound slide note. Still trying to learn here.

Hammerdown · Apr 18, 2010

Hello David
I think Those chafing bushings are screwed in Place from the inside. Later ones due to a cost cutting measure , were Pressed in Place. I believe in the assembly of it, they screwed them in place then Polished the external frame of the revolver before bluing it to make them fit flush and not be noticed. S&W sure does not make them like that any more, shear pride in their work & Craftsmanship back then. thank's for the picture's....

H Richard · Apr 18, 2010

Looks pretty familiar. This is M&P 1st Mod #863X from Jan 1901. Was in about the same condition, lots of nasty lube, but not much shooting residue. I was sort of thrown when I first opened it up, as wasn't what I was used to see. I had some good holp from Forum members in the disassembly differences.

DCWilson · Apr 18, 2010

H Richard said:
Looks pretty familiar. This is M&P 1st Mod #863X from Jan 1901. Was in about the same condition, lots of nasty lube, but not much shooting residue. I was sort of thrown when I first opened it up, as wasn't what I was used to see. I had some good holp from Forum members in the disassembly differences.

I knew I would see a different trigger return mechanism, so I was somewhat prepared for that. What threw me for a while was the cylinder stop -- no frame screw! Eventually I dared just to pull it off its pin and was glad I did, because there was some rough metal on the back of it that kept the stop from moving freely under its spring pressure. It was kind of annoying getting the trigger and its return assembly onto their two studs at the same time I was compressing the trigger spring -- where's that third hand when you need it? -- but it all worked out.

The most nervous I have ever felt looking at an open gun was about two months ago when for the first time I took the sideplate off a wartime Colt revolver. I felt like I had just stepped off an airplane in the middle of the night in some country where I didn't speak the language. But I took pictures as I disassembled it, got it cleaned up (the 1902 was just lightly soiled in comparison), and all back together without messing up the hammer-block linkage. Took a couple of tries, though.

These are the sorts of experiences that teach one patience.

mikepriwer · Apr 18, 2010

David

The third hand is a piece of dowel, that runs from the cutout for the
rear of the cylinder release mechanism, to the second spring. When
disassembling, once the hammer and cylinder-release bolt are out,
cut a piece of wood dowel to a length such that, when pulling the
trigger all the way back ( thus depressing that second spring), the
dowel sets tightly on the second spring, just to the rear of that
pivoting mechanism. When you release the trigger, it will hold the
spring down, so that you can use both hands to remove the trigger
and pivoting mechanism simultaneously.

Then, with a pair of tape-wrapper pliers, you can pull the spring down
just a bit, and remove the dowel. For reassembly, just use the pliers
to pull the spring down, and insert the dowel to keep the spring down.
Then, both hands are available to gently slide into place the trigger
and the rebounding levers, in tact.

Regards, Mike Priwer

DCWilson · Apr 18, 2010

Why didn't I think of that? Thanks for the tip.

H Richard · Apr 18, 2010

Mike was the "Generous Forum Assistance" that guided me through it the first time. The wood dowel is the "third hand". Regarding the cylinder stop, I was advised these are called "Pre 5 Screw 4 Screw".

donaldw870 · Apr 18, 2010

Awesome photos and discussion. I better bookmark this thread so if I ever get one of this vintage, I'll know what to do disassembly/reassembly-wise. -Donald

handejector · Jan 1, 2011

Hammerdown said:
Hello David
I think Those chafing bushings are screwed in Place from the inside. Later ones due to a cost cutting measure , were Pressed in Place. I believe in the assembly of it, they screwed them in place then Polished the external frame of the revolver before bluing it to make them fit flush and not be noticed. S&W sure does not make them like that any more, shear pride in their work & Craftsmanship back then. thank's for the picture's....

Kurt,
I believe you are confusing the chafing bushings with the studs.
Chafing bushings are the bright "dots" on the sides of the hammer(two) and trigger(one). Their only function is to keep the trigger and hammer from rubbing the frame and rubbing the case colors off.

j38 · Jan 1, 2011

Very informative thread and clear photos. Thanks to all who have contributed!

Jerry

PALADIN85020 · Oct 28, 2011

Like yours, my 1902 had about a century of gunk in it. This one belonged to my paternal grandfather, so in spite of the fact that it's seen hard use, I'll never let go of it.

John

JP@AK · Jan 8, 2013

What a great thread. Thank you guys for all the very helpful information and illustrations.
Special thanks to David Wilson for pointing me to this older thread.
Jack

texjack706 · Mar 9, 2015

A wonderful thread, as this is the only pictures i have seen of the innereds of the psitol i have, exactly, thank you thank you.

smitholdtimer · Mar 9, 2015

Although there are many reasons..

This thread and those like it make me really appreciate being a part of this forum and organization, thanks for the informative replies and photos.

billwill · Mar 9, 2015

Good education for me on the insides of an old one. Thanks! If they were still made with that much care I would all be collecting something else...couldn't afford that much handwork.

italiansport · Mar 9, 2015

mikepriwer said:
David

The third hand is a piece of dowel, that runs from the cutout for the
rear of the cylinder release mechanism, to the second spring. When
disassembling, once the hammer and cylinder-release bolt are out,
cut a piece of wood dowel to a length such that, when pulling the
trigger all the way back ( thus depressing that second spring), the
dowel sets tightly on the second spring, just to the rear of that
pivoting mechanism. When you release the trigger, it will hold the
spring down, so that you can use both hands to remove the trigger
and pivoting mechanism simultaneously.

Then, with a pair of tape-wrapper pliers, you can pull the spring down
just a bit, and remove the dowel. For reassembly, just use the pliers
to pull the spring down, and insert the dowel to keep the spring down.
Then, both hands are available to gently slide into place the trigger
and the rebounding levers, in tact.

Regards, Mike Priwer

I for one would love to see a picture thread showing this procedure!
Jim

Mike McLellan · Mar 9, 2015

italiansport said:
I for one would love to see a picture thread showing this procedure!
Jim

This is a really old thread, but here's a picture of what Mike is talking about.

The second picture shows the use of a clamp (being sure to protect the finish) compressing the spring.

The next alternative is to compress the spring at the pin site and driving the pin out, thus removing the spring.

Whatever works best for you. Three hands would still be better.

Inside a 1902

DCWilson

Lefkiguy

Member

handejector

DCWilson

Hammerdown

Absent Comrade

H Richard

US Veteran

DCWilson

mikepriwer

DCWilson

H Richard

US Veteran

donaldw870

Member

handejector

j38

US Veteran

PALADIN85020

US Veteran

JP@AK

US Veteran

texjack706

Member

smitholdtimer

US Veteran

billwill

Member

italiansport

Member

Mike McLellan

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