Inside a 1902

[Oyeboteb]

My m1917 .45 ACP S & W Revolver ( which looks like it did go through a War ) is also very smooth inside the Milled areas of the Frame.

Here's a fast pic from when I had just got it and was cleaning the internals.



Maybe not quite as smooth as the '02s or their era, but considering this was harried War Production, it is pretty impressive how smooth it is.

The few 1960s era S & Ws I have worked on, were quite rough in there, very rough Milling Marks or Machining Marks, even to having metal shavings still attached in some places.

 

[Muley Gil]

"Maybe not quite as smooth as the '02s or their era, but considering this was harried War Production, it is pretty impressive how smooth it is.

The few 1960s era S & Ws I have worked on, were quite rough in there, very rough Milling Marks or Machining Marks, even to having metal shavings still attached in some places."

S&W was taken over by the US Gov't during WW I because the factory refused to get into a hurry. Look at a rough 1917 Colt and the 1917 Smith to see the contrast.

If you ever opened up a 1980s M686, you would be amazed. I did action jobs on many cop guns in that era and I swear the last action the factory workers did before closing the sideplate was to ADD a tablespoon full of metal filings!!!

 

[raljr1]

"The acetone rots your liver quicker than cheap booze, so only breathe it on Saturday nights. "

When I was a machinist's apprentice, my boss would have me clean machines with acetone. No gloves, no mask. Maybe that's what's wrong with me......thank goodness that, in some ways, we are more enlightened today.

 

[Starrider78]

Smith & Wesson

The .38 HE Model of 1902 that I posted in a separate thread was pretty gummed up inside. I knew from the feel of the action that it needed a major cleaning, so after I picked it up today I tore it apart.


When I got the sideplate off, I saw lots of congealed oil with embedded fibers and dust, but not a lot of carbon residue. That is consistent with the other evidence that this gun was not fired very much.

In this photo, note the old style leaf spring that powers the trigger return. The rebound slide mechanism didn't come in until the Model of 1905.

When I got the parts out and cleaned up the frame, I was amazed to see how much smoother an interior the company produced a century ago. In the 1930s and 1940s (and afterward), frame interiors were left rougher where there was no chance of coming in conflict with a moving part.

And after I got all the assemblies cleaned and reinstalled, the whole gun looked a lot better.

Sideplates were sure different back then. Holes for some of the pins and studs are in different positions, and there is no slot for a hammer block.

With a few interruptions, the clean-up was about a three hour job. There was a lot of toothbrush and toothpick work involved.

Yea that is it, I just can't see how the part in the picture I have attached fits in the other parts. I am confused on which way that piece the arrow is pointing at sits in there. It can go in 4 ways butm it is only going to work properly one way.

 

[rct269]

The long piece goes as you have it in the photo---and (obviously) in the space in the short piece. Chicoine's Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly (book) removes ALL the mysteries of these---and all the rest.

One caveat: Mike Priwer's methodology of controlling the trigger return spring for disassembly/assemblly (noted/illustrated in this thread) is vastly superior to Chicoine's-------VASTLY!!

Ralph Tremaine

AND-----those two pieces (as an assembly) go in (and come out) as yet another assembly--this time with the trigger----two hands while learning----and even afterwards. (Sounds more complicated than it is.)

 

[JohnK]

I swear the last action the factory workers did before closing the sideplate was to ADD a tablespoon full of metal filings!!!

__________________I've seen this a bunch of times.

I have received a lot of satisfaction, in cleaning the crud out of otherwise nearly perfect revolvers.

 

[H Richard]

The same as the 1899 action. And, yes, Mike Priwer's method on the disassembly is much better.

 

[les.b]

Thanks to all for resurrecting this thread. I, for one love to see examples of the workmanship that existed over a hundred years ago. I have seen it in several of my own revolvers, bu I think that I enjoy these threads almost as much as working on my own guns! A lot cheaper, too!

Best Regards, Les

 

[Starrider78]

Schematic

The .38 HE Model of 1902 that I posted in a separate thread was pretty gummed up inside. I knew from the feel of the action that it needed a major cleaning, so after I picked it up today I tore it apart.


When I got the sideplate off, I saw lots of congealed oil with embedded fibers and dust, but not a lot of carbon residue. That is consistent with the other evidence that this gun was not fired very much.

In this photo, note the old style leaf spring that powers the trigger return. The rebound slide mechanism didn't come in until the Model of 1905.

When I got the parts out and cleaned up the frame, I was amazed to see how much smoother an interior the company produced a century ago. In the 1930s and 1940s (and afterward), frame interiors were left rougher where there was no chance of coming in conflict with a moving part.

And after I got all the assemblies cleaned and reinstalled, the whole gun looked a lot better.

Sideplates were sure different back then. Holes for some of the pins and studs are in different positions, and there is no slot for a hammer block.

With a few interruptions, the clean-up was about a three hour job. There was a lot of toothbrush and toothpick work involved.

Yea I spent about ther same cleaning it up. Where the spring sits against the Trigger rebound piece, there is another piece inside of it. Tht is the part I am trying to figure out which way it sits in there. Since you had it completely apart maybe you can help. You can't see it in these pics because it is inside another piecs.
DOes the flat side go toward the rear of the Pistol and spring or does the rounded end go in that direction?

 

[Starrider78]

Schematic

The .38 HE Model of 1902 that I posted in a separate thread was pretty gummed up inside. I knew from the feel of the action that it needed a major cleaning, so after I picked it up today I tore it apart.


When I got the sideplate off, I saw lots of congealed oil with embedded fibers and dust, but not a lot of carbon residue. That is consistent with the other evidence that this gun was not fired very much.

In this photo, note the old style leaf spring that powers the trigger return. The rebound slide mechanism didn't come in until the Model of 1905.

When I got the parts out and cleaned up the frame, I was amazed to see how much smoother an interior the company produced a century ago. In the 1930s and 1940s (and afterward), frame interiors were left rougher where there was no chance of coming in conflict with a moving part.

And after I got all the assemblies cleaned and reinstalled, the whole gun looked a lot better.

Sideplates were sure different back then. Holes for some of the pins and studs are in different positions, and there is no slot for a hammer block.

With a few interruptions, the clean-up was about a three hour job. There was a lot of toothbrush and toothpick work involved.

Yea I spent about ther same cleaning it up. Where the spring sits against the Trigger rebound piece, there is another piece inside of it. Tht is the part I am trying to figure out which way it sits in there. Since you had it completely apart maybe you can help. You can't see it in these pics because it is inside another piecs.
DOes the flat side go toward the rear of the Pistol and spring or does the rounded end go in that direction?

 

[stu1ritter]

the little roller end goes into the back of the trigger and then you will see that you can only put it in one way and have it fit. I just did my 1902 a few days ago.

Stu

 

[Starrider78]

Cylinder Hand

Yea I spent about ther same cleaning it up. Where the spring sits against the Trigger rebound piece, there is another piece inside of it. Tht is the part I am trying to figure out which way it sits in there. Since you had it completely apart maybe you can help. You can't see it in these pics because it is inside another piecs.
DOes the flat side go toward the rear of the Pistol and spring or does the rounded end go in that direction?

One other questio, and I'm sure it will take a Micrometer top measur it but, low laong is the end of the hand that turns the Cylinder? Whe a Cylinder starts slipping when the trigger is pulled, that is the first piece I thinkl about and thisone looks worn down.

 

[stu1ritter]

Your photo's are far too blurry to be able to see detail.

Stu

 

[DCWilson]

This thread is over six years old, and I no longer have a visual memory of exactly how these pieces go together. But given what you cannot see in the assembled images, the long arm must go toward the trigger and the shorter blocky arm must be positioned toward the rear of the gun. With that established, the long arm must be positioned below the pivot hole or it would collide with other parts of the gun.

Remember that dowel trick from higher in this thread, because you are going to be holding the trigger in one hand and the rocker assembly in your other when you push them down onto their respective studs at the same time.

EDITED TO ADD: Stu came in with the right answer while I was hunting for a photo or X-ray image that would show the proper relationship between these parts. At least you have different guys telling you the same thing, so that should inspire confidence.

EDITED AGAIN: Can't help you with the hand. That's a part that is usually fitted to a specific gun by trial and adjustment rather than measurement. Rarely you may find a drop-in hand that magically works, but most of the time I have found myself messing around to make a new hand work properly.

I can't remember the exact spring tensioning system used in these older hand ejectors, but I hope you paid attention when you took the hand off the trigger. Getting a spring, trigger and hand back together the right way is one of those experiences that lead to excessive beer consumption once you stumble onto the solution.

 

[stu1ritter]

I use a pair of needle nose vice-grip pliers with rubber hose over the tips of the pliers to compress the spring. Gives complete control on compressing the spring and absolutely holds it in place.

Stu

 

[Starrider78]

The .38 HE Model of 1902 that I posted in a separate thread was pretty gummed up inside. I knew from the feel of the action that it needed a major cleaning, so after I picked it up today I tore it apart.


When I got the sideplate off, I saw lots of congealed oil with embedded fibers and dust, but not a lot of carbon residue. That is consistent with the other evidence that this gun was not fired very much.

In this photo, note the old style leaf spring that powers the trigger return. The rebound slide mechanism didn't come in until the Model of 1905.

When I got the parts out and cleaned up the frame, I was amazed to see how much smoother an interior the company produced a century ago. In the 1930s and 1940s (and afterward), frame interiors were left rougher where there was no chance of coming in conflict with a moving part.

And after I got all the assemblies cleaned and reinstalled, the whole gun looked a lot better.

Sideplates were sure different back then. Holes for some of the pins and studs are in different positions, and there is no slot for a hammer block.

With a few interruptions, the clean-up was about a three hour job. There was a lot of toothbrush and toothpick work

involved.

When reassembling does the piece that goes inside the trigger Lever, I can't think of the name of it right now. It has a small ball like end on it. Does it fit over or under the small pin on the hand to operate it?

 

[stu1ritter]

It goes under the hand pin. There is a recess for the little roller in the back of the trigger

Stu

 

[Starrider78]

It goes under the hand pin. There is a recess for the little roller in the back of the trigger

Stu

I know. And I know all these parts go together one certain way to cause the hand to move forward and up and pull the Cylinder lock down at the same time, I just haven't getten it all figured out yet. There is a spring and notch in the trigger that works these mechanisms, I just have to keep trying.

 

[Starrider78]

I know. And I know all these parts go together one certain way to cause the hand to move forward and up and pull the Cylinder lock down at the same time, I just haven't getten it all figured out yet. There is a spring and notch in the trigger that works these mechanisms, I just have to keep trying.

I think I see what I missed. I have to push the Cylinder lock down when I put the trigger i place. I just need 2 more hands

 

[Starrider78]

MIssing Lug

I think I see what I missed. I have to push the Cylinder lock down when I put the trigger i place. I just need 2 more hands

Ok, the Lug on the Cylinder lock lever is missing on the pistol I have. The lug that the trigger pulls down on to release the Cylinder. Would you have any idea where to get one or, what I coulsd make one from?