1917 conversion to 22lr

J

jamned

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This gun was purchased at the MAAC show in Novi, Mich. this weekend. It's a 1917 that has a really wild conversion to 22 lr. Serial # on the cyl & butt match. The barrel looks like it came from a rifle. Anyone know who might of did this conversion? Jim Nedela.

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Here are a few more pictures.

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I've never seen anything that even comes close to that other than the Parker-Hale .22 conversion kit for a Webley Mk VI.
I wonder if whoever did this got his idea there? They sure went to a whole lot of work and I would guess that it's a one-off. I've been thinking of converting an old top-break to .22, but it won't be anywhere near as complicated as that.
 
That's absolutely crazy! It looks like the "586" CO2 airgun, except the ammo loads at the back of the cylinder here. The adjustable rear sight is a nice touch, too.

I'd get a set of these before doing anything like that, though =)
 
What a fascinating revolver. So much more work went into it than was necessary for a "simple" .22 conversion, what with the split barrel shroud made from the front half of a standard cylinder. And that adjustable rear sight is not a standard S&W rear sight. Looks more like something you would see on an old Colt.

I wonder if there is any chance of finding out the history of this specimen. Congratulations on a really neat find. That has to be in the running for the "most modified from basic configuration" award.

Nice to know that there is a second N-frame in .22 LR. I wonder if there is any chance that that was made by factory smiths in an in-house special modification competition.

I'd have to letter that one. Please keep us informed about whatever additional info you manage to turn up.
 
valkyriekl said:
I'd get a set of these before doing anything like that, though =)
Click to expand...

My education continues. Anybody ever used these? What sort of accuracy can one achieve? The bullets just float down one side of the .45 barrel surrounded by expanding gases, right?

I imagine these might be useful if you had a need to shoot rats at three feet and set them on fire at the same time.

I'm kind of deep in the mystification zone on this one. What am I not understanding?
 
I didn't know they were on the market. Kinda crazy to use, seems like. The 1917 conversion started with similar inserts, but concentric to the bore. The firing pin was modified & has a spring return. The extractor star is soldered to the original 45 star. The fitters marks on the frame & crane also match. It has an old cold blue, & was extremely dirty, still need to do more cleaning, then a trip to the range, Jim.
 
That is just amazing. Trying to imagine who "needed" this. (But I like it!)

Can you show us the hammer, and the ejector extended?

What bore is the forward, "fake" part of the cylinder? Do you think they made this from an n-frame cylinder or is this a custom cast / machined piece?

I can't wait to see the range report on this one.
 
colt made some experimental guns using a system very much like this.
 
Perrazi, where did you get the info about the Colt guns? Any information available? Thanks, Jim.
 
Wow, that's pretty wild! I also have a S&W 1917 converted to .22LR, although not in such an elaborate manner. The cylinder is still full length, but it and the barrel are simply sleeved. I don't recall exactly how the firing pin is altered - I'll have to drag it out and take some pictures. It also has an adjustable sight. I've done a little target testing with it, but it didn't group worth a flip.

I bought it at a Tulsa gun show in August 2007. The seller also had a Colt 1917 similarly modified - I should've gotten them both just for the lulz.
 
Children, there is nothing new under the sun,--as my mother used to say. My deceased mentor, Ura "Duke" Duvall had this colt saa that looked like a 45 but the rear of the clinder was 22LR. The clyinder is split, the end of the barrel is 45 with a 22 barrel stick in it that runs back through the front of the clyinder that stays stationary and the rear revolves. Dukes brother in law arnold "al" capone that used to own kings gun works in los angeles made this one up. I was in touch with dukes daughter doreen a few years ago, and at that time she said she still owns this one. I wish to add, this gun was on the cover of guns, or maybe G&A back in the 60s. Duke showed it to me.

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About 25 years ago I saw a Nagant revolver (Russian military) that was converted to 22 with a sleeved barrel and chambers but never anything like this.
 
DCWilson said:
My education continues. Anybody ever used these? What sort of accuracy can one achieve? The bullets just float down one side of the .45 barrel surrounded by expanding gases, right?

I imagine these might be useful if you had a need to shoot rats at three feet and set them on fire at the same time.

I'm kind of deep in the mystification zone on this one. What am I not understanding?
Click to expand...

I haven't use them myself, but they appear to have a short rifled section in the inserts to at least stabilize the bullet. As the bullet travels down the barrel, as you said, it probably wouldn't touch the rifling at all.

As to accuracy, I dunno, but probably not very useful past 10 feet.

I'd bet the most annoying thing about them would be extraction; the inserts extract, sure, but getting the spent casings out would require a stick of some kind...
 
Very interesting gun. I find some of these guns fascinating for the work and ingenuity that went into them. Here is a Second Model American I picked up that was converted to 22 lr. Among the alterations are sleeved cylinder and barrel, a plate added to the recoil shield and altered sights. The gun was refinished but original otherwise as the fitters marks all matched and even the grips are numbered to the gun. The gun obviously had a timing problem at some point but now locks up fine with no issues.

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feralmerril said:
Children, there is nothing new under the sun,--as my mother used to say. My deceased mentor, Ura "Duke" Duvall had this colt saa that looked like a 45 but the rear of the clinder was 22LR. The clyinder is split, the end of the barrel is 45 with a 22 barrel stick in it that runs back through the front of the clyinder that stays stationary and the rear revolves. Dukes brother in law arnold "al" capone that used to own kings gun works in los angeles made this one up. I was in touch with dukes daughter doreen a few years ago, and at that time she said she still owns this one. I wish to add, this gun was on the cover of guns, or maybe G&A back in the 60s. Duke showed it to me.

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Click to expand...

Some real interesting conversions, this Colt being one that looks similar to mine. Have you got any other info about Capone? I looked around the net for a copy of the article, but no luck yet. Can you recall the issue or what magazine it was in? Thanks, Jim.
 
Jim, arnold capone started kings gun works in los angeles. He died and I think his son owns it. Dukes daughter told me she has the gun and copys of the magazine. I posted the gun here or maybe on the colt site about two years ago. She was a deputy in northern california and another deputy friend of hers seen my post and then she got ahold of me. Duke and I worked together. I rented him a room in the early 1970s. Our job was about 100 miles from his house. He was a big time old well known collecter of smiths, but everything else too! Everytime he went home every couple weekends or so, he would bring a new suitcase full of guns back for us to discuss! He was my mentor and taught me 90% of what little I know about guns! Years back he did the polishing for new finishs at kings for just his gun money! I have handeled that gun. It was fitted up as good as it looks! Duke didnt have to take a back seat to any collector on this site! He said capone and others like old writer tommy bish and himself were always dreaming up projects like that and would just do them to see how they would work out. While I am mentioning it, here is another colt that I own, that capone and bish did. It started out as a 1906 copper queen bisbee arizona gun in 4 3/4" 44 wcf. They converted it to 7 1/2" .44 special useing all new colt parts. No doubt they did this in the 50s or 60s.

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Just more info. I must have doreens phone # somewhere but cant find it. I probley will.
Duke even owned some old volcanics! I remember a beautfull almost mint "baby volcanic" he owned. He lived at clear lake california. And right on the lakes edge. He and his collection got hurt real bad in a flood they had there years ago after he retired around 1980.
Dukes prize gun that he always kept under the mattress was a 3 1/2" 357. I dont recall if it was the regestered model or just prewar model. It was a shooter, not pristine. Just some blue wore off, maybe 85%.
This one he got from the widow of I think a famous police captain or chief somewhere in northern california. From the late 30s or 40s. This gun was one of the "Best looking" smiths I ever seen. It had fully fine carved ivory grips, a small gold badge that was texas ranger style mounted on the right side plate. The badge had red rubys fixed all between the star points and was solid gold maybe 3/4" diamiter. It had one of those king cockeyed hammers, and either a gold or ivory bead front sight and I belive but aint sure, it was also a king mirror.
Were duke alive today he would be about 95. On a personnal level, not museum or the like, I never knew anyone more knowledgable and with such a exstendsive collection. Duke kept his stuff just in old socks, and he definetly wasnt one of the type that wore a roadster cap and tweeds and hand you white gloves to look at his stuff!
Duke GAVE me this old double barrel pistol when I met him! Its a old pin ot teat fire, probley belbum or spanish made from about the 1840s? Its a 50 caliber. The 1950 .44 special I bought off him for I think $200s! It had the original grips and sadly, I lost them. Duke was like a 2nd dad to me!

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HSguy, do you know anything about the provenance of that converted revolver? Many years ago, on a bitterly cold and windy day, I went to an estate auction at a farm outside of Belvidere, IL, and among other items, they had a similar revolver that had been converted to .22 by the gentleman whose stuff was being auctioned. I would guess that it was in the early seventies. There was a lot of older machine shop equipment up for sale also. I couldn't stick around, as I couldn't stand the cold. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was coming down with pleurisy, and ended up off work for a week or two.

Belvidere isn't all that far from where you are; curious!
 
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