S&W model 1902 questions

sherrill15

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I picked this up yesterday. From what I read I believe it's a model 1902 M&P no change. Am I correct? My questions are, why is their a star after the serial number? Does the 7,42 mean it was sent back to Smith in July of 42? Should I get Smith to reblue it or leave it alone? It appears someone put something on it to make it look like it had a patina to it but when I started cleaning it with a rag it started to rub off. What did they use? I shot three different calibers in it this morning, .38 special, .38 short colt, and .38 long colt, and it shoots a little high with all three.
 

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The star normally means the gun was refinished by the factory. I am not sure that the factory will reblue the gun these days.
 
The star frequently indicates a refinish, but it can indicate a factory return for more serious repairs as well. I have a prewar .22/32 with a star that got a new barrel and cylinder in 1946.

Yes, your gun is a straight 1902, not a first change.

The finish on the cylinder looks better than on the rest of the gun. Does the cylinder have the serial number stamped on the rear face? The SN ought to appear also on the flat underside of the barrel and a couple of other places that are harder to see.

Refinishing? I think I would just leave it alone and enjoy it as it is. Old war dogs earn their scars. It would be a shame to take away part of its identity.

I like 1902s. Congratulations on having that one.
 
The barrel, yoke, cylinder, and frame all match. The extractor star? does not match. It's in the 600,000 serial number range. I'm guessing it came off of a 1905 as their serial numbers go up to 1 million. As for the cylinder yes the bluing is in descent shape. Not sure why. Any idea as to what someone put on here to cover up the white metal? Whatever it was it gave it a patina look too it.
 
I'm a big fan of 1902's. Yours has had a somewhat rough life, but its
far from terminal !

The 7.42 was probably for something having to do with extractor
star, but it could have been more than that. There is no easy way
to know what was done by the service department. You might check
the assembly number - its sometimes stamped in the yoke area, and
also sometimes on the inside of the sideplate. See if that corresponds
to the number under the extractor.

The factory will not work on guns that old. That includes refinishing.
Your best bet is someone like Dave Chicoine.

I have no idea what someone might have put on the surface - I would
remove it, if it comes off easily when cleaning the gun. Then you will
know more about the real condition of the gun.

The thing about refinishing is that if the gun has any surface damage,
such as dents, rust pits, scars, etc, you'd probably want those removed
first, and the filing will often remove a lot of the roll markings, which
on that gun, are somewhat faint and fine.

You might want to consider sending the gun to Dave C., to have him
look it over. If it needs any machanical repair, he can do that, and
get the gun timed up properly.

Also, it looks like the stocks have warped, or are not the original
pair. They were numbered to the frame, by a scratched number
inside the right grip panel.

I have a feeling that the barrel has been replaced, even though it
has the right serial number. The end of the roll markings, on the
top of the barrel, are too close to the frame. At the very least, the
barrel may have been removed, and then moved one whole turn
closer to the cylinder. This might have happened if they replaced
the cylinder, which is what it looks like, to me. The finish on the
cylinder is totally inconsistent with the condition of the rest of the
gun.

Mike Priwer
 
The production? number G4440 match on the frame, yoke, and sideplate. I've add pics of the serial number on the cylinder and barrel. The only number I see on the right grip is a stamped number 60515? I don't see anything scratched onto it.
 

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Now you show us the important pictures !

I'm convinced that is a replaced barrel and cylinder, numbered to the
serial number of the frame. The stamped serial number on both the
bottom of the barrel, and the rear face of the cylinder, are not from
the 1903 era. In that early period, the number dies used for the
barrel and cylinder serial number were very fine, and very small,
digits. Also, the digits were stamped very close to each other, and
in a nice straight line - not like what you see here. On this gun, those
stampings are much much deeper, with a different kind of number
stamp, and not even in the spacing of the digits. This is nothing like
what it ought to look like. Also, the <8> , or whatever it is under
the barrel, is some kind of service department stamp - probably
indicating something about where this replacement barrel came from.

The grips are also not original to the gun, but are correct. The serial number stamped
in the grips is later, by perhaps a year or so.

The barrel on this gun was redesigned, in 1903, and it is the redesigned barrel
that was used from that point forward. The redesign increased the diameter of the
threaded portion, and added a shoulder to the barrel. Presumably they kept some
spare barrels from the 1899 and 1902 era - otherwise they would not have had a
replacement for the original barrel.

Mike Priwer
 
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i was looking up a 1899 model and from what i read this is made after 1905 cuz it has a lug under the berrel to lock the cylinder.1899-1905 only locked in back of the cyl with no lug under the berrel.i could be wrong but just read this info in the last few days on various sites
 
i was looking up a 1899 model and from what i read this is made after 1905 cuz it has a lug under the berrel to lock the cylinder.1899-1905 only locked in back of the cyl with no lug under the berrel.i could be wrong but just read this info in the last few days on various sites

Actually the front locking lug was introduced with the Model of 1902. The Model of 1899 indeed had no front lug.

The .38 M&P was in a state of more or less constant refinement and redesign from 1899 to 1915, when the Model of 1905/Fourth change (as collectors designate it) was introduced. After that the design was stable for about 30 years.
 
ic .now that i think about the wording,it stated the lugless was made from 1899-1905 that doesnt mean other version wasnt made during the period.?i seen 1 4sale with out the lug and sparked my interest in this era resently
 
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