Pawn Shop "Victory" Find

kikokat · Jul 22, 2011

Was doing my bi-monthly walk through at the local pawn shop today, and stumbled across a nice Victory. Very nice condition overall, mirror bore, all matching numbers, and.....bonus... "Bavarian Municipal Police" marked. I've never found anything reasonably priced in this shop, but stole this one for $250. Also has "USProperty GHD" marking.
Charlie, serial # is 457689 for your data base. Any estimate of mfr date? Probably should get it lettered like my others.
Thanks,
John

sw44spl · Jul 22, 2011

very nice I like the german marking on it.

Art Doc · Jul 22, 2011

I didn't realize guns this early were being built. I thought they started around 700,000. Also, this is the first 38 Special I have seen that was used by German police. Live and learn.

Dragon88 · Jul 22, 2011

Now you need a Bavarian marked M1 Carbine to go with it.

Nice piece.

kikokat · Jul 22, 2011

Actually, I had 5 of them and sold all but my Rock-Ola "Bavarian Rural Police".
I love the "extra" bit of history associated with these guns.

Dragon88 · Jul 22, 2011

Sounds like it's photo shoot time.

CQB27 · Jul 22, 2011

That is an excellent find, and for $250 I would have burst out laughing on my way out the door!

Now, if it could only talk.

Doubless · Jul 22, 2011

Great find... years ago I was given an M&P "basket case" originally chambered for the 38 S&W. It was subsequently sent to Cogswell and Harrison in GB, and was stretched to take the 38 Special case. It was marked by C&H, was stenciled with the proof test pressure, and sent back over here, I guess. I re-assembled it and shot it, only to find out it split cases in every chamber because the S&W was a bigger diameter case. I pawned it. In retrospect, I wish I had kept it; not to shoot, just to have. Kind of like yours: if it could talk, what a story, right?

lebomm · Jul 22, 2011

Strikes me as odd that a German police marking would be applied in English. Add to that that Bavaria is a state of Germany, not a city, I'd think it more likely that this piece was used in Bavaria, Kansas or some such.
Just my $.02 worth.

Larry

Dragon88 · Jul 22, 2011

Markings on a Bavarian M1 Carbine, as sold and certified by the Civilian Marksmanship Program:

KEN L · Jul 22, 2011

lebomm said:
Strikes me as odd that a German police marking would be applied in English. Add to that that Bavaria is a state of Germany, not a city, I'd think it more likely that this piece was used in Bavaria, Kansas or some such.
Just my $.02 worth.

Larry

These weapons were supplied by the United States to re-arm various German Police units. Therefore, all marking was done in English. First handgun I've seen with such markings. Makes me wonder if there might not be some 1911A1's out there with like markings.............

kikokat · Jul 23, 2011

Jim Mock's incredible web site mostly deals with the M1 Carbines given to Austria / Germany post WWII. Here's a link to some info about the pistols & revolvers we gave them. Scroll about 1/4 of the way down the page and you'll see a pic of a "Bavarian Municipal Police" Victory. The 1911 "Bavarians" seem to be the really rare bird.
U.S. M1 Carbines in Germany

KEN L · Jul 23, 2011

Great stuff, thanks for sharing!

trikster · Jul 23, 2011

I have one of these as well. Mine is from the Austrian police and all text from the Austrian stamps are in German, not English like yours. Mine is also chambered in .38 S&W, not .38 Special. In researching mine, I did not find any lend-lease Victory models sent to Europe/England that weren't .38 S&W. Are you sure yours came from Germany, not the US?

mtime7 · Jul 23, 2011

trikster said:
I have one of these as well. Mine is from the Austrian police and all text from the Austrian stamps are in German, not English like yours. Mine is also chambered in .38 S&W, not .38 Special. In researching mine, I did not find any lend-lease Victory models sent to Europe/England that weren't .38 S&W. Are you sure yours came from Germany, not the US?

the US armed them with US weapons after we won the war (ie carbines & victories and others) and I am guessing that they were stamped in English because we stamped them.. As far as your 38s&w, that could have been purchased directly from s&w or provided by a Commonwealth country (just guessing though) but US guns were in 38 spl to my knowledge

digi-shots · Jul 23, 2011

Very nice catch... I don't think I could have passed either !

Very insteresting especially that's its a .38 Special and not S&W.

wheelgun28 · Jul 23, 2011

A semi local shop has a barvarian marked victory similar to this. Its quite rough and they want $899 for it.

The funny part is that they printed out some posts from this forum to document the markings

Great find!!

Muley Gil · Jul 23, 2011

" didn't realize guns this early were being built. I thought they started around 700,000."

SP, the OP didn't give the whole SN. The serial number is actually V457689. You are referring to the pre Victory guns.

ordnanceguy · Jul 23, 2011

kikokat said:
Charlie, serial # is 457689 for your data base. Any estimate of mfr date? Thanks, John

Hi John:

Thanks for posting the complete serial number for the Database. That is a neat revolver.

From the Victory Model Database, which my pal LWCmdr45 and I maintain, I can tell you that your gun likely shipped from the factory in the November-December, 1943 time frame. There are quite a few examples in the Database marked "Bavaria Municipal Police", in both .38 Special and in .38 S&W calibers.

HTH.

ordnanceguy · Jul 23, 2011

wheelgun28 said:
The funny part is that they printed out some posts from this forum to document the markings

There is no better place on the 'net than right here for the most accurate information on S&W guns.

A while back I was at the big Louisville gun show. I saw an interesting Victory in a case and started asking the owner some questions about it. He reached under the table and pulled out a print-out of a several-year-old thread from this Forum on that same gun. What was rather surrealistic about that experience was that the questions he had posted in the thread had been answered by me. The seller was using my own posted reply to 'authenticate' the gun I was interested in! While I did not end up buying the gun we both had a good laugh about it when I told him I was the guy who had answered his questions a few years earlier.

Pawn Shop "Victory" Find

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