K22 heavy bbl.

larryofcc

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I have to admit, I have been at this S&W collecting for a little over a year now, and have not seen a heavy bbl. pre M17 K22 for sale or otherwise. I mean one with a numbered bbl. so I could tell it was original. Are these guns rare? I have most all the post war "K" revolvers including the K32. Need to find a nice heavy bbl. K22. I have a nice 1953 K22 std. bbl. with target hammer and letter to trade. Thanks, Big Larry
 
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Larry, I have found a certain variation of any k22 is not that rare until the moment you start looking for it:D The first k22 i ever bought was a four screw heavy bbl and that is what started me on this forum. Keep the faith, one will pop up.
 
I have several 4 screws of different models, but it is that 5 screw HB K22 that eludes me. Thanks, Big Larry
 
Larry as memory serves the 5 screw K22 "Heavy" Masterpiece was introduced in the 1950 circular but didnt begin to appear until around 1955 .
My only 5 screw "Heavy" is a 1955 gun in the K259,000 serial range (far left) and has a polished finish,
The few 5 screw Heavys I have seen are usually close to it in serial and are also polished with "High Speed" Hammers.
If the 4 screw revision occurred somewhere near the K300,000 range it would be a short run and not surprising that they do not pop up for sale very often .
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Edited to add:
I have two Pre Model 17 four screw K22 "Heavy" masterpieces from around 1957 in the K300,000 range ,
While the 4 screw Heavys seem to appear a bit more frequently than the 5 screw Heavys neither of my 4 screw Heavy K22s have serialed barrels or cylinders and my guess is the practice of numbering them was dropped around then as well.

Good luck in your search...
 
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K22 Heavy Barrel

Never heard of a K22 Heavy. What is the difference ?

Dimensional OD of the barrel ?
 
Never heard of a K22 Heavy. What is the difference ?

Dimensional OD of the barrel ?

The first post war K22's had a 6" tapered barrel that was phased out by the mid to late 50's in favour of one with a wider rib and no taper that was named the "Heavy" Masterpiece.

The 4" tapered barrel version continued in the K22 "Combat" Masterpiece until the 18-4 was replaced by the 17-5 "Heavy Barrel" which was offered in both 6" and 4" lengths and replaced the 18 line.

Muzzle comparisons (L to R) for K22 "Heavy" Masterpiece Tapered barrel and Outdoorsman barrels.
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Top views
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I can count on one hand the 5 screw heavy barrel K-22's I've seen, and if memory serves they all fell in the K250,000 SN range. This K-22 and K-32 are within a couple thousand numbers of each other in that range.
 

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Larry as memory serves the 5 screw K22 "Heavy" Masterpiece was introduced in the 1950 circular but didnt begin to appear until around 1955.

My reading of the all-model circular is that the K-32 Heavy and K-38 Heavy were introduced in 1950, but that the K-22 Masterpiece only existed in it's original form . . . since the weight of the K-22 was the basis for the heavy K-32s and K-38s.

Here is a discussion we had about one year ago on the subject . . . along with a picture of the page from the 1950 S&W All-Model Circular.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/219785-late-5-screw-k22-features.html

Like others, I have seen only a very few of the 5-screw, pre-model, K-22s with the heavy barrel and they were all bright blue in the K25XXXX and 26XXXX serial range and shipped in March/April 1956.

Good luck in your search Big Larry, they are out there.

Russ
 
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Now, for you guys that have one, are the bbls numbered? I have two K38's, one # K 272318, shipped 1-9-1957 that all usual parts are numbered, and # K 286893,shipped 2-1957, that has only the stocks numbered. Pretty much the last of the numbered parts revolvers. I will be on the lookout for a HB K22 5 screw now that I know they exist. Thanks all for your answers. Big Larry
 
Now, for you guys that have one, are the bbls numbered? . . .

Am away from home at a gun show this weekend but will check mine when I get home and let you know if the barrel is numbered . . . can't remember.

Russ


edit to add: I'm home and did check . . . the "heavy" barrel on K254351 (shipped March '56) does have the matching serial number.
 
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Big Larry,
I have K258967 that dates to April 1956 with the heavy barrel and it does have the serial number on the barrel flat. I will post you a picture later this afternoon.
 
I do not believe there is a 'Heavy Barrel' K-22 per se. As far as I know, the factory never used the term, and I have a fairly extensive catalog and paper collection.

The K-22 barrels were changed merely to make the 3 KMs match more in appearance, in my opinion.

As discussed, the 32 and the 38 were made Heavy to match the weight of the 22 when all three were loaded with target ammo. Why would the K-22 be made intentionally heavier to upset that equalization?

I just weighed a 5 screw 1948 K-22 and a 1977 Mod 17-3, both without grips. The 17-3 with the wide rib is 47 grams or 1.658 oz heavier. The 17-3 is both dirtier and oilier than the K-22. The K-22 is also a special order Bright Blue, so it was polished much more than a normal gun for that year, so there is PROBABLY not really a difference of 1.658 ounces between the two versions IF one were to weigh two fully clean examples made within a year or two of each other instead of nearly 3 decades apart.

I also wonder if the 32s and 38s were altered ever so slightly at the time K-22 ribs were widened to keep the weight match among the trio.
What would be most interesting would be to weigh three clean guns supposed to be equal weight, like say three 1952 guns with HB 32 and 38, LOADED with target ammo, and see how close they really are.

THEN, let's weigh a 1955 or 56 trio which includes a wide K-22, equally clean, and LOADED with target ammo of the day. It needs to be contemporary ammo because bullet lubes and powder changes could affect weight by several milligrams.

It may be possible that the wide 22 did not upset the equality because the 32 and 38 were too heavy when made Heavy. Maybe they never truly matched them.
Or, as I said earlier, maybe they were lightened ever so slightly when the 22 got wider/heavier.

Ahhhh, the joys of collecting, with questions, questions and mysteries, mysteries. :D

So, someone should strip, clean, dry, load, and weigh two trios matched by year(or very close) without grips and get back to us. We can't risk manufacturing variation that might occur from year to year or decade to decade. They, of course, must have matching hammers, triggers, and sights, and be weighed without grips to avoid variation. You have to understand how much difference a red post and a white outline or a Target Trigger could make!

I may not sleep well till I know for sure if their IS a HEAVY K-22, or merely a WIDE K-22.
I GOTS to know! :D
 
View attachment 97069Here are the pictures i took earlier. The one on the top in first picture and the one on the left in second picture is K258967 and the other one is K212310 from April 1954.
 

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I normally don't pay much attention to post-war guns but I happen to have a circ. 1955 K22 I recently picked up because the price was just to good to pass up.
Anyway, for what it's worth, here are the measurements of my matching, 5 screw, polished finish K259834:

Width of barrel at frame = .721, at muzzle = .588
Width of rib at frame = .433, at muzzle = .312
Sight blade width = .130

Weight w/grips 2 lbs 7.8 oz / 1130 grams
Weight w/o grips 2 lbs 6.8 oz. / 1080 grams
Weight w/o grips with 6 rds CCI SV 2 lbs 6.8 oz / 1100 grams

Am I right in assuming this is what is being called a "Heavy Barrel" ???
 
Big Larry, I just checked my 5 screw wide rib K-22 and it does have serial matched barrel and cylinder.
Makes sense if the 4 screw versions mostly do not have serial matched barrel and cylinder as the practice seems to slowly dissappear around that same time.

I stand corrected ,
While the 1950 circular has the tapered barrel "K-22, K-32, K-38 Masterpiece" advertised (upper left),
There is in fact no wide rib K-22 version advertised with the K-38, K-32 "Heavy Masterpiece" alongside them (Upper right) .
This might help explain why wide rib K-22's do not appear until a few years later (near 1955).
AllModelCircular1950-1.jpg


Nonmenclature Nonmenclature...
Since both narrow and wide rib versions of K-38 and K-32 were available at the same time in the same advertisement customer and manufacturer would have needed a way to differentiate between the two when placing an order so it makes sense the factory added the moniker "Heavy" to Masterpiece .
Also makes sense that after the tapered barrel versions were discontinued it may no longer have been necessary to use the term "Heavy" with Masterpiece if there was only one 6" version available to order in each caliber.

Still it kinda makes sense that if the identicle wide rib K-38 and K-32 twins were named "Heavy" Masterpiece the K-22 version would also be referred to as a "Heavy Masterpiece" to differentiate them from the previous narrow rib version but I bow to the experts of official Nonmencalature .

There is in fact a "Heavy Barrel" version of the K-22 in existince in the 4" and 6" Model 17-5 as these varients have a barrel diameter that is much larger than any previous K-22 and is pictured below 3rd from left.

"SCSW 3rd ed. Page 184 :
1986 Introduce 4" heavy barrel with serrated ramp in place of the Model 18."
The Heavy Barrel actually continued in the 17-6 line until the introduction of the full underlug version pictured below
(L to R) 617, 17-6, 17-5 HB, 18-3.
K22CMs010.jpg
 
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Well, I will be on the lookout for a 5 screw HB for my collection. I have a near mint, lettered with target hammer K22 from 1953 for a trade if anyone is interested. Thanks all. Big Larry
 
May well be. I don't have enough expertise on this subject, but all my 4 screw "K"s have the wide rib. Big Larry
 

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