More questions on a 38 S&W Special CTG. Thanks for all the info on this gun. Does Special on the barrel refer to 38 special ammo or can regular 38 ammo be used? Do they make 38 and 38 special ammo in a cowboy load for the old guns? If so what is a good brand? Another question that came up was about the Malties crosses on the barrel. Do the signify anything? Thanks again for the help identifying this gun.

.38 S&W Special is most often just called .38 Special , but it is NOT the same as .38 S&W. S&W did develop both rounds , but the .38 S&W is shorter and lower pressure than the later .38 Special.

The 2 rounds are NOT interchangeable.

The .38 S&W was common in older and weaker top-break revolvers. .38 Special rounds sometimes fit , but should NEVER be fired in top-break revolvers.

.38 S&W rounds will sometimes fit and fire in .38 Special revolvers. Not likely to cause any damage , but it's still an unwise move.

The 38 S&W Special uses a regular 38 Special cartridge. This is quite different from the 38 S&W which is an old cartridge that was originally a black powder cartridge used in many top break revolvers. The British used the 38 S&W cartridge and for this reason there are lots of WWII vintage Smith & Wesson revolvers that were chambered for the 38 S&W. The 38 Special uses a bullet that is .357 while the 38 S&W uses one that is .360. The 38 Special is also longer and slightly smaller in diameter compared to the 38 S&W.

The 38 Special is a higher powered load than the 38 S&W. Many WWII British Service revolvers were reamed out to accept a 38 Special cartridge, but the chamber is still too large and this will cause a bulge in the case.

If you have a revolver marked "38 S&W Special" then it was originally designed for 38 Special.

38 Special ammunition is available in a large number of different loads from the 148 grain target loads to higher pressure Plus P loads with either light or heavy bullets. For a revolver built prior to WWII it is best to stay with the lighter loads.

I hope this helps.

Steve

.38 S&W SPECIAL ≠ .38 S&W

.....................................................................................

__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Can ya post a pic?

With the help here it is a 1901-1902.

Attached Images

image.jpg (271.9 KB, 76 views)

To my knowledge, there is no particular significance to the Maltese Cross symbols used by S&W. It was just something they did at that time.

There has always been a lot of confusion about the .38 S&W and .38 S&W Special cartridges. The .38 S&W cartridge originated well back in the black powder days, and was used in a large number of 19th century revolvers from various manufacturers. It was very popular and actually survived well into the 20th century, with at least one manufacturer still making revolvers for it until the 1970s. The British used essentially the same cartridge (which they called the .380 Revolver Mk1 or Mk2) from the 1930s through WWII and thereafter, in both S&W .38/200 M&P revolvers and their own Enfield top-break
revolvers.

The .38 S&W Special cartridge originated in 1899 for the S&W First Model hand ejector military revolver, and was originally designed a military black powder cartridge which was more powerful than the shorter .38 Long Colt cartridge, then the standard U. S. Military revolver cartridge. The .38 S&W Special cartridge was very quickly adapted to use smokeless powder, but remained available in a black powder loading until the 1930s. I could never understand any good reason why, other than possibly many shooters thought that smokeless powder was just a passing fad.

Due to length and diameter dimensional differences, the .38 S&W and the .38 S&W Special cartridges are not interchangeable. The WWII S&W pre-Victory and Victory .38/200 revolvers chambered in .38 S&W are very often found with reamed cylinder chambers to allow use of the .38 S&W Special cartridge, as performed by many U. S. importers of surplus military arms during the postwar period. This made them more attractive for sale on the U. S. civilian market during the 1950s and 1960s where many thousands were sold very cheaply. Both .38 S&W and .38 S&W Special cartridges can be used in those S&W British military revolvers having reamed chambers.
---------------------
If you wish to shoot a First Model in .38 S&W Special, the recommended load would be the .38 S&W Special wadcutter target load. I have no idea if there are .38 Special CAS loads. If so, those would be OK also. I personally would not recommend shooting it very much. One can also make up wax-bullet loads using canning parrafin and a primer only- no powder. I do that a lot for shooting inside the house or in the back yard.

Thanks again for everyone's help in this process. It has been a great help to me.

If you can find it, several companies load Cowboy Action loads (Hornady, Magtech, etc.), all with flat nosed lead bullets at reduced velocities. I seem to recall one that even uses shorter cases (.38 Long Colt length) for quicker extraction, and presumably reloading.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Another possibility would be the .38 Short Colt. It is still loaded by Remington and has the approximate ballistics of the .38 S&W. And it will chamber in any .38 Special. Tough to find however.

Although similar, they are actually not iron crosses, they are Dingbats:

Many wonder what the little iron cross-like marks are at the beginning and end of the cartridge and/or patent date roll mark on the barrel. Dingbats were a common typographical ornamentation used as a guide and referred to as "feet" back in the day to begin and end the barrel rollmarking to help align the stamping. For example: they were used on many pre war guns then show up again after WW II on some models. The little M frame .22 has them on both ends of the cartridge roll stamp. Triple locks and other models have them atop the barrel on both ends of the address and patent dates, etc.

See photo in post #4 here: 32 LONG CTG HELP ID.
iron cross-like dingbat shown here: Typography - 46 Cool & Useful Dingbat Fonts | Think Design

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

It might be interesting to compile the types of "dingbats" (if you wish to call them that), where they are used, and when. I pulled out a few S&W revolvers. A 1922 M&P has no such dingbats, nor do several others of more recent vintage. A 1915 M&P has dingbats at each end of the barrel caliber stamping that in no way resemble a cross of any style - more like a rectangle notched at one end. An 1896 .38 DA has dingbats around the barrel rib patent dates, and those are very clearly of the "Cross Patee" (or Tatzenkreuz) style, which is similar in appearance to a Maltese cross, but not the same. Just something else to look out for.

Yes, the use of dingbats is inconsistent. Although I've never observed them on the Smith & Wesson name stamp. The rectangular with one open side looking style is actually just the usual 3 legged style but just deeply stamped. The only two styles I've observed, doesn't mean there aren't others, is the 3 legged and occasionally four legged. Those with four legs are the most similar to the Maltese Cross but the two vertical legs are thicker than the horizontal legs.

My 44 Triple Lock has 4 legged dingbats on the address/patent dates stamping and 3 legged on the cartridge stamp.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

It's a little hard to see since the nickel is pretty bad.these marks are on both ends.

Attached Images

image.jpg (29.1 KB, 23 views)

Rebelpan,

Yes, the 4 legged style.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819