M1917 Colt versus S&W

Trinidad Bill · Dec 29, 2014

Since being bit by the S&W bug I have been watch diligently for a S&W M1917.

The other day I walked into a small rural gun shop and there was a M1917! I thought I found one.

Upon inquiring I found in was a Colt and not a S&W. The M1917 looked to be completely original and in very good condition. The price was reasonable.

My question is should I hold out for a S&W or jump on the Colt?

Secondly, what is the difference between the Colt and S&W M1917?

glenncal1 · Dec 29, 2014

Nothing wrong with owning both, especially if the Colt is a good deal.

DWalt · Dec 29, 2014

Jump on the Colt if price and condition are right. The differences are mainly in appearance. Both are chambered in caliber .45 ACP, and require clips (readily available and cheap) to allow proper ejection of empties. Both are modifications of pre-existing large frame civilian revolvers for military service. and in equivalent condition, are valued similarly by collectors. You really need one of each. During extensive testing of revolvers by the U. S. Army prior to the adoption of the M1911 semi- auto pistol, the large frame Colt revolver was judged to be superior in performance to the similar S&W large (N) frame revolver, and as a result, the very similar Colt M1909 (in .45 Colt) was briefly adopted for service use prior to the issuance of the M1911. This is my pair of .45 Colt M1909s, both are modifications of the Colt "New Service" revolver.

I'll add that finding a M1909 in any condition is unusual, let alone in the condition of those two shown. Most of the relatively small number issued saw hard service in the Philippine jungles during the early 20th century, and not very many survived.

44wheelman · Dec 29, 2014

Machining and finish on the Colts comes nowhere close to the S&Ws.

It's a long story, but I ended up with both.... I like having them both to compare & contrast.

824tsv · Dec 29, 2014

44wheelman said:
Machining and finish on the Colts comes nowhere close to the S&Ws.

It's a long story, but I ended up with both.... I like having them both to compare & contrast.

How about a side by side pic?

alaskavett · Dec 29, 2014

Anytime I find a WW1 or WW2 era Colt, S&W, anything in good original configuration and "reasonable" I adopt it. There getting harder and harder to find every day. Chances are (slim) if you don't like it you could trade it for something that is worth/costs more in the near future. If you like it and have the $ then take it home with you. Kyle

Green Frog · Dec 29, 2014

The locking mechanism of the Colt lacks the front lug under the barrel as seen on the S&W. I count this as a negative except when bobbing the barrel off short, then the Colt has the advantage, as no allowance needs to be made for the lug during alterations. JMHO, of course, and in the original configuration I prefer the Smith.

Froggie

sodacan · Dec 29, 2014

It own one of each and like both. One big difference is the size. The Colt seems huge compared to the S&W. Almost like an "N" frame compared to a "K". The original finish is more refined on the Smith, but be aware that many from both companies were refinished after WW1. A lot of them were parkerized. Some of the very early Colt's were only set up to shoot with moon clips. The head spacing was not set to accept 45acp without them. I think the early ones were sent back to change this. The S&W came from the factory with the ability to load both ways. Both can shoot 45 auto rim.The action on my Smith is smoother, but the Colt locks up like a bank vault. The double action on both is heavy, but the Colt is really heavy.I believe the later Smiths had a heat treated cylinder, but someone else will have to confirm that.The serial number on the Smith is the same as the number on the butt. The butt number on the Colt is an arsenal number and is about 150,000 different than the serial number. Of course the Smith has a pinned barrel. The very early S&W guns had hammers with concentric arcs on the sides and the stocks were concave at the top. These generally bring a premium. The only ammo I shoot is standard velocity, 230 grain ball, but many guys shoot lead. NO +P. These guns are closing in on being a century old. Before you shoot one, it doesn't hurt to have a gunsmith check it out. These guns are two of my favorite shooters. It is really cool to shoot a piece of history. Hope this helps. Happy new year.

kcwheel · Dec 29, 2014

In a side-by-side shooting comparison, the rougher finished Colt is easier on my hand than the S&W. The hump above the wood on the S&W is pretty rough on the web of my hand.

Ken

delta-419 · Dec 29, 2014

Colt

I have both and they are great shooters, both were in the $600-700 price range and both were in 100% mechanical condition. I like the feel and looks of the Smith but you need both. So far I have a ratio of 6/1 in favor of the Smith. If condition and price are right go for it!

DWalt · Dec 29, 2014

And then you can start collecting military holsters, belts, and ammo pouches for them. Both revolvers fit in the same holster. Originals are tough to find.

1blindref · Dec 29, 2014

If you can afford both - get both

Colt 1917

S&W 1917

The differences are very subtle. The Colt has what I call a shark's fin front sight, the S&W has a rounded sight.

The grip angles are slightly different and the Colt's grip is slightly larger.

I shoot both of mine and the Colt fits my hands a little better, but the S&W is more accurate and has a better trigger.

22hipower · Dec 29, 2014

Quote from OP: "Upon inquiring I found in was a Colt and not a S&W. The M1917 looked to be completely original and in very good condition. The price was reasonable."

You might want to spend some time on the web researching the Colt 1917, especially pictures, to be sure you know how to identify original finish. A couple earlier responses mentioned that the Colts are not finished as well as the S&Ws. True, and an original finish may appear not to be; it will show machine marks on the frame behind the cylinder and on the end of the barrel towards the cylinder as far as the front sight. These marks may appear so "rough" as to suggest they were added later, maybe during a clumsy refinish. This is not the case, more likely a Colt 1917 that does not exhibit these machine marks has been refinished. I don't have time to dig out my 1917s and photograph them but you should be able to find examples easily on the web. If the Colt 1917 you're looking at is in the $500 range, probably not much risk, if mechanically good it is worth that as a shooter. If you're looking at one in the $1000 to $1500 or more range you'll want to be sure it is in original condition; those are not easy to find these days. Good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Wiregrassguy · Dec 29, 2014

Here's a picture of a S&W and Colt 1917. Both guns have been refinished in nickel, but you can see some of the differing characteristics. S&W on top and Colt on bottom.

cmort666 · Dec 29, 2014

Trinidad Bill said:
My question is should I hold out for a S&W or jump on the Colt?

Don't pass up one to get the other. Neither is common at an affordable (for me anyway) price any more.

I've had both (more or less), having previously owned (and foolishly traded) a S&W, and currently owning a New Service similar in configuration to a Colt M1917.

Trinidad Bill said:
Secondly, what is the difference between the Colt and S&W M1917?

The difference is that between any Colt & S&W revolver. The lockwork, controls, etc., are different. In general, it's easier to get a decent D/A trigger pull from an S&W. The Colts "stack", getting heavier as you squeeze the trigger. To ME, the Colt his a bigger handful, based on my previously owned S&W M1917 and my various N frames.

I definitely wish I still had that Smith '17.

THE PILGRIM · Dec 29, 2014

As I have told before - my FIL was a WWII Air Force Doctor.
Early on he was posted to Africa.
During pre-deployment briefings in DC, he was issued 2 -1917s.
He gave one to another guy during the Pan Am flying boat trip over.
He carried his 1917 all over West Africa.
But he could not remember if it was a Colt or a Smith.

Trinidad Bill · Dec 29, 2014

Wow, thanks guys for all of the great information. I will re-check the finish on the Colt looking for machining marks. If it continues to call me (like it has) I will most likely take it home.

I do remember the size of the Colt being larger than I expected. Also came with ammo pouch and clips.

It is a 3 hour trip just to see it!

BTW the finish is not parkerized, definitely worn blue but not abused. And, we spent some time talking about the demerits of re-finishing nice old guns.

DCWilson · Dec 29, 2014

I side with those who say you should get both. But if the budget permits only one, get the Colt now and then sell it to finance the Smith when it comes along later -- if you find you still really want the Smith version. It is true that the Colt finish is rougher, the Colt frame is more massive and that the grips are a little different. I have Smith-adapted hands and the Colt grip shape still feels a little odd to me. Others prefer it, however.

A little eye candy, including my Uncle Ralph's campaign hat. (Not his guns, though.)

DWalt · Dec 29, 2014

One cannot expect wartime production revolvers to have the quality of finish of a prewar revolver, and that's not even a valid issue for criticism of the Colt. The pre-WWI Colt New Service revolvers have magnificent glossy deep blued finishes, fully the equal of anything you will find on a S&W. But the time and money spent on achieving such a finish is unjustifiable when rapid production during a wartime period is the goal. These revolvers were meant to be used to kill the enemy, not dazzle them with the beauty of their blued mirror finish. You will see M1917 Colts with what appears to be wire brush metal treatment, which is exactly how they were made. I had a Colt M1917 some years ago which had no discernible blue remaining anywhere, yet it was mechanically perfect and rust-free. I always wondered if it left the factory that way. I wish I still had it.

rjb1 · Dec 29, 2014

You mentioned that the price of the Colt was "reasonable". Since no one here is in a position to buy it out from under you, can you say how much the asking price was?

M1917 Colt versus S&W

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