M1917 commercial with reamed chambers...

[Seaark1660]

She looked pretty good..

Correct grips, crown good, lock work tight, cylinder index good...

And then I looked into the chambers. The reaming marks were there and the steps for the chambers were gone...

How common was it to do that and why do I seem to keep finding them.

 

[cgt4570]

Are you sure it's a commercial 1917, and not a .455? If stock barrel, the 1917 is 5.5". The .455s (whether Crown purchase or commercial) were 6.5". Was the SN still on the cylinder face? I can't think of any reason to ream out a .45ACP cylinder. You can't shoot .45 LC in it due to headspace.

 

[erikpolcrack]

I have an M1917 that a previous owner reamed out to 45 Colt. Works fine with full moon clips from TK Custom. Still works with 45 AR and 45 ACP with half moon clips.

 

[Timothy2700]

Not an expert on this by any means (so if someone corrects me I’ll learn something new today) but as I understand it the S&W M1917 had steps and one could get by w/o moon-clips, while the Colt model did not have a step and absolutely needed the clips. Is yours a smith, a colt, or as per above a webley?

 

[Muley Gil]

Not an expert on this by any means (so if someone corrects me I’ll learn something new today) but as I understand it the S&W M1917 had steps and one could get by w/o moon-clips, while the Colt model did not have a step and absolutely needed the clips. Is yours a smith, a colt, or as per above a webley?

The EARLY Colt 1917s didn't have the shoulders to chamber ACP rounds without clips. Colt later provided proper cylinders and retrofitted cylinders to the early revolvers.

Over the past 50 plus years, I have looked at a number of 1917 Colts and have yet to find one with a nonchambered cylinder.

 

[StrawHat]

Not an expert on this by any means (so if someone corrects me I’ll learn something new today) but as I understand it the S&W M1917 had steps and one could get by w/o moon-clips, while the Colt model did not have a step and absolutely needed the clips. Is yours a smith, a colt, or as per above a webley?

The EARLY Colt 1917s didn't have the shoulders to chamber ACP rounds without clips. Colt later provided proper cylinders and retrofitted cylinders to the early revolvers.

Over the past 50 plus years, I have looked at a number of 1917 Colts and have yet to find one with a nonchambered cylinder.

Since S&W was able to cut a proper chamber that headspaced on the mouth of the cartridge AND Colt was able to cut a proper chamber in the 1911, the Army asked why they could not cut a proper chamber in the revolver? Ooops, busted! Fix it!

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

She looked pretty good..

Correct grips, crown good, lock work tight, cylinder index good...

And then I looked into the chambers. The reaming marks were there and the steps for the chambers were gone...

How common was it to do that and why do I seem to keep finding them.

How bad is it? Here is one I own,

Kevin

 

[Timothy2700]

The EARLY Colt 1917s didn't have the shoulders to chamber ACP rounds without clips. Colt later provided proper cylinders and retrofitted cylinders to the early revolvers.

Over the past 50 plus years, I have looked at a number of 1917 Colts and have yet to find one with a nonchambered cylinder.

Good to know….and I did learn something new today. Thanks Miley Gl

 

[Seaark1660]

How bad is it? Here is one I own,

Kevin

It's just like that...

Bluing gone and toolmarks from whatever tooling they used left behind in the chambers.

45 auto falls through the chambers, and it looks like an awful long reach for the hammer nose to hit the primer on a 45 Colt.

It's a commercial model.. Checkered grips w/o medallion, rounded rear sight cut, logo under thumbpiece, and the SN is still visible on the cylinder.

 

[erikpolcrack]

It's just like that...

Bluing gone and toolmarks from whatever tooling they used left behind in the chambers.

45 auto falls through the chambers, and it looks like an awful long reach for the hammer nose to hit the primer on a 45 Colt.

It's a commercial model.. Checkered grips w/o medallion, rounded rear sight cut, logo under thumbpiece, and the SN is still visible on the cylinder.

The M1917 so modified that I own will fire two or three rounds out of six if you don't use the TK Custom full moon clips I mentioned. You have to insert the 45 Colt rounds just far enough to close the cylinder and hope you get enough primer strike. Works 100% with the clips.

 

[Muley Gil]

She looked pretty good..

Correct grips, crown good, lock work tight, cylinder index good...

And then I looked into the chambers. The reaming marks were there and the steps for the chambers were gone...

How common was it to do that and why do I seem to keep finding them.

If you are wanting to use this as a shooter, sounds like you need to find another cylinder. It may be possible to fit a newer cylinder if you can't find a vintage one.

 

[desi2358]

Had a thought. Back in the 1940's into the 1950's there was a brief craze for shotgun revolvers. One of the methods used was to ream the cylinder so a full length case could be used that would hold the maximum amount of shot. The most common case they used being a cut off 30-06 case, loaded into half moon clips. Some people also smooth bored the barrels and this eventually got the attention of the ATF which decided that made them illegal, short barreled shotguns. The craze died out rather quickly after that and shotgun pistols didn't really come back until some manufacturers looked at the gray areas in the rules and made guns with rifled barrels that didn't fall under the exact reading of the law.

 

[Seaark1660]

Had a thought. Back in the 1940's into the 1950's there was a brief craze for shotgun revolvers. One of the methods used was to ream the cylinder so a full length case could be used that would hold the maximum amount of shot. The most common case they used being a cut off 30-06 case, loaded into half moon clips. Some people also smooth bored the barrels and this eventually got the attention of the ATF which decided that made them illegal, short barreled shotguns. The craze died out rather quickly after that and shotgun pistols didn't really come back until some manufacturers looked at the gray areas in the rules and made guns with rifled barrels that didn't fall under the exact reading of the law.

Now that's one I didn't think of and you're probably right. I have seen a weird one that was an original "Governor" from what I remember.

Years ago, I ran across a "stretched" M1917 where they lengthened the frame window and cylinder that you could shove a 2" 410 shell in the chambers. Rifling was bored out from the rear so about a half inch was left at the muzzle. Wish I had a picture of the nickel-plated monstrosity. I've never seen another like it.

 

[glowe]

What brass was made that fit in a 45 ACP cylinder and was long enough to come to the face of the cylinder? I do not know of any? If the cylinder is original, the S&W 45ACP will chamber and fire, but if it is bored through, it will not work without the moon clips. Also, the cylinder shoulder at the end of the brass it very important for accuracy as the step is sized to match the bullet diameter. That short distance through a cylinder that is too large, the bullet will not enter the barrel correctly, resulting in bullet shaving or at least will provide a reduction in accuracy.

 

[Iggy]

45 Winchester magnum brass “stretched 45acp brass “ Loaded to 45 Colt specs,” in moon clips put the bullet right up to the forcing cone.
I have a 1916 vintage British MK II HE with post war 45acp cylinder and barrel that is quite accurate.

 

[glowe]

As a poster stated, one could use a brass shell the length of the cylinder for a shotshell. The 45 ACP cylinder is over 1 1/2" long, while the 45 Winchester magnum brass is 1.2" as far as I can tell. That would not fill the chamber of a bored through cylinder for a shot shell. Also, no way you could stretch the frame of a 1917 to accept a 2" long .410.

 

[Muley Gil]

What brass was made that fit in a 45 ACP cylinder and was long enough to come to the face of the cylinder? I do not know of any? If the cylinder is original, the S&W 45ACP will chamber and fire, but if it is bored through, it will not work without the moon clips. Also, the cylinder shoulder at the end of the brass it very important for accuracy as the step is sized to match the bullet diameter. That short distance through a cylinder that is too large, the bullet will not enter the barrel correctly, resulting in bullet shaving or at least will provide a reduction in accuracy.

.30-06, .308 Winchester, etc.

Major George Nonte USA Retired wrote about these conversions.

 

[Seaark1660]

As a poster stated, one could use a brass shell the length of the cylinder for a shotshell. The 45 ACP cylinder is over 1 1/2" long, while the 45 Winchester magnum brass is 1.2" as far as I can tell. That would not fill the chamber of a bored through cylinder for a shot shell. Also, no way you could stretch the frame of a 1917 to accept a 2" long .410.

They stretched it by using 2 frames... cut through the top and bottom and grafted them together and the same with the cylinder. You could see some of the seam in the nickel plating.

You can choose not to believe it, but that's what it looked like. The work was really well done. Just as odd as the modified revolvers in the 80's where the barrel was flipped upside down and looked like the modern Chiappa Rhino.