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11-30-2015, 02:36 PM
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Help identifying 3-screw 38sp pinned barrel no model number
Hi All,
I'm looking at an heirloom piece coming down with almost no history available and need some assistance identifying it. It is a three screw, six shot, four inch pinned barrel, 38 special. It is in beautiful shape. The pics don't show well but the blueing is fantastic and the rifling is crisp. Thanks in advance.
That is a C to the left of the serial number C4276XX
There is an S and a 7 behind the crane and the assembly number 5 5709 and a G on the crane.
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11-30-2015, 02:49 PM
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It's a Military and Police (M&P) model from around 1958. It's toward the end of the pre-Model 10 production era, as it does not have the MOD. 10 stamping in the yoke area. It appears to be in pretty good condition and correct. These are very common S&W revolvers.
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11-30-2015, 02:49 PM
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It's a .38 Military & Police from 1958. You'll find the fourth screw on the sideplate under the stock panel, counting the cylinder stop screw at the front base of the trigger guard.
By this time it 'should' have been stamped MOD 10, but this was either missed or a pre-model stamped (pre-1958) frame was used. Hope this is helpful.
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Alan
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11-30-2015, 03:06 PM
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Thanks for the quick responses.
There is no cylinder stop screw on the base of the trigger guard. I was counting the screw behind the grip. Don't know if that makes much of a difference.
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11-30-2015, 03:25 PM
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More interesting - the fourth screw didn't go away until 1961 with the 10-2, well into the model stamped era. A mystery.
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Alan
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11-30-2015, 05:30 PM
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"There is no cylinder stop screw on the base of the trigger guard."
Although the old adage is that nothing is impossible with a S&W, that is about as close to being impossible as you can get with that SN. The first model change without the trigger guard cylinder stop screw was the 10-4 in 1962. That change would have occurred somewhere in the SN C5xxxxx range but I don't have the exact number. Are you looking at the right place - at the front of the trigger guard?
Last edited by DWalt; 11-30-2015 at 05:45 PM.
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11-30-2015, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
"There is no cylinder stop screw on the base of the trigger guard."
Although the old adage is that nothing is impossible with a S&W, that is about as close to being impossible as you can get with that SN. The first model change without the trigger guard cylinder stop screw was the 10-4 in 1962. That change would have occurred somewhere in the SN C5xxxxx range but I don't have the exact number. Are you looking at the right place - at the front of the trigger guard?
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I don't think he is looking in the right place. I think I can see the screw head in his second picture. See enlargement below.
Last edited by Absalom; 11-30-2015 at 06:25 PM.
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11-30-2015, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
I don't think he is looking in the right place. I think I can see the screw head in his second picture. See enlargement below.
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I earlier thought I saw it there also, but couldn't be sure.
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11-30-2015, 06:44 PM
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I've messaged the family member that has it. They're working and will reply with a pic of the trigger guard asap. I called S&W customer serv and they said it was made in 1959 and is a model 10. I asked about the lack of model number and as was previously posted, it may be an earlier frame. I will update as pics come in.
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12-01-2015, 05:33 PM
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5-screw is 4 sideplate screws plus the screw ahead of the trigger guard
4-screw is 3 sideplate screws plus the screw ahead of the trigger guard (which is what yours should be)
The spring tensioning screw in the grip frame front is not counted.
It may have shipped in 1959, but it wasn't made in 1959. And the first marked Model 10 SN is around C 438xxx.
Last edited by DWalt; 12-01-2015 at 05:37 PM.
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12-02-2015, 09:42 AM
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Interesting read - with no upper side plate screw ( near rear sight) this I would think should be well into model marked era. I am thinking about buying a mod 10 no dash offered for sale locally which is a five screw and in reviewing my SCSW it looks like the first four or so years of mod 10 production would have been five screw guns so the one featured in this thread is an anomaly for sure
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12-02-2015, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorD
with no upper side plate screw (near rear sight) this I would think should be well into model marked era
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Not really. The upper side plate screw was discontinued in 1956, nearly two years before model marked guns started leaving the factory. The early Model 10 revolvers had only four frame screws.
Quote:
in reviewing my SCSW it looks like the first four or so years of mod 10 production would have been five screw guns
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Again, this is not correct. See my first comment. The first few years would have four screws. Then the cylinder stop plunger retaining screw was dropped (Models 10-4 and 10-6) leaving them with three frame screws.
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Jack
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12-02-2015, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorD
Interesting read - with no upper side plate screw ( near rear sight) this I would think should be well into model marked era. I am thinking about buying a mod 10 no dash offered for sale locally which is a five screw and in reviewing my SCSW it looks like the first four or so years of mod 10 production would have been five screw guns so the one featured in this thread is an anomaly for sure
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The engineering change order to eliminate the upper sideplate screw (AKA Bug Screw) was issued in 1955, three years prior to the use of the Model xx designation. This is the timeline of the Model 10 changes until the trigger guard screw was also eliminated:
10-1 (1959): heavy barrel
10-2 (1961): change extractor rod thread for standard barrel
10-3 (1961): change extractor rod thread for heavy barrel, change front sight width from 1/10" to 1/8"
10-4 (1962): eliminate trigger-guard screw on standard barrel frame
10-5 (1962): change sight width from 1/10" to 1/8" for standard barrel
10-6 (1962): eliminate trigger-guard screw on heavy-barrel frame
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12-03-2015, 01:26 AM
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I received a pic and it does Indeed have the 4th Screw. Still a cool M&P made in the late 50s without a model number , shipped in 59 after they were making the new ones It'll buddy up to my 13-3 quite nicely if it comes to us instead of one of the other two grandkids. Thanks for the help guys. Here's a little gun porn as a tax paid for your assistance. My 13-3's adventure.
Last edited by TheFineLine; 12-03-2015 at 01:32 AM.
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12-03-2015, 09:48 AM
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I was mistaken obviously in my previous posts. But while I see the SCSW notes regarding engineering changes what does not make sense as I noted was that a local shop I frequent has a mod 10 marked gun that is a five screw, and a combat master piece I bought yesterday ( a shooter grade) is a four screw but with no model number, and my friend also bought a 15 marked gun four screw with an earlier serial than mine! So often there are inconsistencies!
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12-03-2015, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorD
I was mistaken obviously in my previous posts. But while I see the SCSW notes regarding engineering changes what does not make sense as I noted was that a local shop I frequent has a mod 10 marked gun that is a five screw
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If the model number is in the yoke cut and not merely on the sales tag, that would indeed be an oddity, since the top sideplate screw was discontinued two years before model marked guns were shipped. If it is just on the sales tag, the shop has simply mislabeled the gun. Where on the gun are the five screws that you are counting?
Quote:
a combat master piece I bought yesterday (a shooter grade) is a four screw but with no model number, and my friend also bought a 15 marked gun four screw with an earlier serial than mine! So often there are inconsistencies!
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Four screw guns can either have a model number in the yoke cut or not have one. Both types exist. As for serial number overlap, that is not surprising either. Implementation of management orders was not immediate. There could be some late non-model marked guns with higher serial numbers than early model marked guns in the same model line. On the Combat Masterpiece, they would likely fall in the K317xxx to K320xxx range or thereabouts.
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