One of the first big bore revolvers I shot was a S&W Model 1917 from the Brazilian contact. This was back sometime in the 60’s and I have no idea which version i shot. Since then, maybe a dozen have passed through my hands. I currently have two, one from befor the war and one from after the war.

From what I have learned, both were built on Commercial frames. I can not find any marks indicating either was built on a military frame. Both have the small S&W shield on the right side below the cylinder. Both are also stamped on the right side, under the cylinder “MADE IN U.S.A.”

One has the earlier square notch rear sight while the other has the older round bead notch of the earlier military model.

The serial number on the butt read with barrel pointing to the right on the pre WWII revolver as on the Commercial Model 1917 of that era. The other has the barrel pointing to the left as is typical of the Commercial Model 1917 of the earlier era.

Hopefully, others will fill in other differences between the two variations.

Thank you.

Kevin

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The earlier Brazilian 1917s were built on new made (1937) commercial frames and had the square notch rear sight. After WW II, S&W found a bunch of WW I era frames and offered the Brazilians some more revolvers. These revolvers had the "dimple" rear sight.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

As many times as I have had these apart, I should know that. I did a quick search and found this thread,

When did S&W start installing hammer block safety?

And post #8 had this,

Hondo44 wrote this in another thread, “…
The hand actuated hammer block was applied to the 1917 N frames at about # 185,000 c.1919. It was introduced on the 2nd and 3rd model 44 Hand Ejectors c.1927 at about #29000…”


Kevin

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Kevin here's what I think i know about Brazilians and use of WWI surplus 1917 frames:



MODEL 1917 ARMY BRAZILIAN CONTRACTS (1937 & 1946)

In 1937 S&W made some 25,000 of the Model 1917 Army commercial models with barrels stamped "S.&W. D.A. 45" left side and SMITH & WESSON right side, under contract for Brazil, most in serial range 181983-207043 with exceptions as usual that have serial #s far out of this range, most using the post WW I 1930’s produced flat top frame with sq notch rear sight (as did all N frames since the 1926/1927 time frame with no model name changes to differentiate), and are stamped “MADE IN U.S.A.” on right frame side with the small S&W trademark logo on left side of frame. They also have a Brazilian Crest on the side plate dated 1937. These frames will not have military inspector stamps. This first Brazilian 1917 ARMY contract revolvers had 1930s commercial checkered Svc grips with flat chrome plated medallions. Mushroom ext rod knobs. Many will have cyl hold open detents. Use caution if you remove the yoke. These will have the side plate hammer blocks.

Note: The Brazilian Expeditionary Force deployed to Italy without owning any ordnance, trained with obsolete French weaponry, and were initially equipped with ‘03 Springfields and later M1’s. It’s reported that the officers and MPs used the 1937s. See pictures and posts #1, #18, and #20, also #27 for spelling of Brazil: Modified 1917


In 1946 the 2nd contract Model 1917 Army Brazilian run was of about 11,834 total; most with older pre 1926/1927 style round top strap and small U notch rear sight. This is why most 1946 Brazilians do not have post war sliding bar safeties and likely not side plate safeties, but may have cyl hold open detents. Use caution if you remove the yoke.
Most, 9151, using surplus WW I produced frames in the 166,000 – 175,150 range with many exceptions as usual that have serial #s far out of this range. There are 2,685 with the newer flat top commercial frames generally in the 207,196 – 209,878 range, with a few round tops also reported in that range. Those using old inventory military barrels are only stamped "S.&W. D.A. 45" left side; those with newer commercial barrels will also have SMITH & WESSON on right side. These '46 contract guns are also mostly stamped “MADE IN U.S.A.” with small S&W trademark logo on left side of frame. But they had WW I surplus 1917 # matching smooth grips both concave and convex tops. Although some have lettered with checkered med grips. However, the butt serial #s read with barrel to the left like all post war hand ejectors, and is the easiest way to know for which contract the gun was built. Those built on surplus frames will not have the side plate mounted hammer block.

RE-USE OF 1917 SURPLUS FRAMES*
Inspected, but unused serial numbered 1917 military frames preceding and following #169959 (the estimated last military unit made), were assembled thru #209791 by 1946. Some numbered frames went to the Navy and Marines.

Some 1917 frames and parts left over from the government contract with very varied shipping dates were assembled into many commercial model 1917s, and military 1917s to fill contracts for the Brazilian government in 1937 but mostly in 1946. Therefore the s/n is of little help to pin down the shipping dates, but features do help. Any 1917 frames used for 2nd Model 44 Hand Ejectors will have serial #s in the regular N frames serial number series. Since many of these frames already had the butt drilled for the lanyard swivel. Often a flush plug is observed in place of the lanyard swivel, and that's the way the factory installed plugs. Domed plugs are not observed from the factory and are considered aftermarket installations.


There are numerous examples that have the flaming bomb or eagle government inspector stamps in one or more various locations but not on the outside of the frame which were finished off; only in the yoke, and on 45 barrels and/or 45 cylinders. Also fouling cutouts may be found on these frames under the top strap.
Example: 45 ACP all matching serial number is #55639 (assembly #18408 match in all 3 locations as well), it's a round top/U sight notch, has Eagle head proofs inspectors stamps on barrel & cylinder; S24 on cylinder, and an S34 on the barrel. Likely from the 1946 contract because of round top strap and U notch.
War time 1917s did not have S&W trademark logos.
If it has the S&W trademark on the frame it is a commercial gun, at least after ~ 1920, or a Brazilian.

*According to Neal and Jinks, the Commercial models of the early period were butt stamped 'US Army Model 1917' and stamped 'US Property' under the barrel, but this is questioned and mostly disproved. If they exist or are faked, this may be how the erroneous "Civilian Model 1917" mythology came about. More to learn on this issue.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Kevin,

All I can say is that 1919 date was apparently a typo.

All my notes read as follows:

• 1933 - The first hammer block safety, which was the 2nd style pre war mounted in the sideplate, was added to the 1917 Army at about # 185,000, N&J pg. 217. A statement in SCSW pg. 163 also indicates no S was added to the serial because of course it’s prior to 1946.

Side plate hammer block safeties: Type 1 left, Type 2 right (actuated by a cam flange on the hand).


Photo credit: gordonrick

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Huh .

My M1937 has 1937 date stamp , but smooth service grips , as imported .

Grips were often swapped around. Do they number to the serial number? Does it have a square notch rear sight or the older "dimple" rear sight?

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I believe all of the Brazilian Models had the 1937 stamp under the seal.

Kevin

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Thank you for that information. Last week, I was looking at my cut (4”) Brazilian and wondering why the right side of the barrel was unmarked. I assumed it had been polished off when the barrel was cut. I see now it used an old military 1917 barrel.

There is always something to learn!

Kevin

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Here is the barrel from my 1946 variation of the Brazilian 1917, showing the right side without the stamping.



Here is the right side of a 1937 variation of the Brazilian Model 1917,



I had always guessed the later variation had the markings polished off when the barrel cut was made.

Kevin

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