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S&W M&P marked 38 Military for Caliber.
- Thread starter Mikebiker
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Someone may come by and correct me, but I do not think that exact wording was ever used. To my knowledge the early ones were marked “U.S. service cartridge “ and once 38 special was introduced was marked 38 S&W spl & U.S. service cartridge
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The only .38 M & P variant I have seen with ".38 Mil" on the barrel is the Navy model of 1902, but the serial number you quote is incorrect for this variation. Photos would really help here, along with knowing if all the serial numbered parts match.
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S & W never threw away perfectly useable parts, so I would not be surprised if a “non-matching” barrel was put onto a gun.
The 38 MIL barrel stamping is found on the 1,000 US Army contract guns in the 13,000 - 14,000 range. Left over barrels do show up, but only in the Model 1899 range since the barrels stamped did not have a lug, as used on Model 1902 on. 38 MIL was the caliber marking only for the 38 Long Colt chambered guns. However, subsequent leftover barrels were placed on 38 Special revolvers since the bore was .357". The US Navy 1899s did not have any barrel caliber markings.
I have an 1899, #17,813 with a leftover US Army contract barrel. Pictures below.
I have an 1899, #17,813 with a leftover US Army contract barrel. Pictures below.
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Further research yields an interesting observation. I found Model 1902 US Navy Revolvers in the 25,000 serial number range with a 38 MIL stamped barrels. These revolvers had a barrel lug and the old stamping indicating they still used the caliber marking on the Model 1902s. Certainly possible that any over-run barrels produced could have found their way into the gunsmithing market or that the factory used them in their service department over time.
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DWalt
Member
The 1902s used the dual caliber stamping on its barrels until over SN 100,000, and I believe even a little higher. And indeed the .38 Mil and the U.S. Service CTG is the .38 Long Colt. Is the barrel on yours serial numbered?
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DWalt
Member
Well, with the square butt, it is a Model of 1905. The SN would place its shipment in early 1906, probably February. I can’t comment on the caliber stamp on the barrel beyond what others have said.
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I think it is worth what a correct, complete gun would be, and the unusual barrel marking doesn't add or subtract from that. $450-500?
Is it a 5 screw? Looks like a standard 38 Hand Ejector, Model 1905, 1st Change made from from 1906 to around 1908. Your revolver is likely a 1906 ship date. Nothing rare or uncommon except for the barrel caliber stamping. Probably a left-over barrel from the 1902 US Navy production.
DGNY
Member
To the OP, thank you for sharing this interesting and rather educational specimen.
Many of us would be quite happy to find that.
Many of us would be quite happy to find that.
mikepriwer
SWCA Member
It's possible that the gun is not chambered for 38 special, but for something else. It may not be an accident that this barrel is marked for 38 MIL.
If I were you, I would try chambering a 38 special cartridge. If it doesn't chamber properly, meaning that it will not seat all the way down in the cylinder, then maybe the gun really is chambered for 38 long Colt. If this is the case, then it might have been a special order, and be important in some way or other.
If it does properly seat a 38 special cartridge, look down the cylinder chambers and see if there is a double ring, which would indicate the the chambers were originally for 38 Long Colt, but were later lengthened for 38 special.
Regards, Mike Priwer
If I were you, I would try chambering a 38 special cartridge. If it doesn't chamber properly, meaning that it will not seat all the way down in the cylinder, then maybe the gun really is chambered for 38 long Colt. If this is the case, then it might have been a special order, and be important in some way or other.
If it does properly seat a 38 special cartridge, look down the cylinder chambers and see if there is a double ring, which would indicate the the chambers were originally for 38 Long Colt, but were later lengthened for 38 special.
Regards, Mike Priwer
Something appears to be wrong with the chambering for that gun. I believe the cylinder was a 38 Special, but maybe has been over-bored to take 38 S&W. The shoulder at the front of the cylinder seems way to thick and pronounced to be original. Looking at several guns around that era, I only find a very smooth necking down of the chamber. I also see a fire ring well below the necked down area suggesting that the shorter 38 S&W may have been fired in that revolver. Could you take a measurement of the chambers at the rear and front of the cylinder?
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Mikebiker
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Today I compared the two cartridges and tried them in the gun. The 38 Colt and 38 Special both have the same case length. Both fit the cylinder perfectly. The cylinder has not been modified. The only real explanation I can think of is a left over 1902 Navy Barrel as glowe said above. We all know S&W did not want to put Colt on a barrel so it was describes as 38 Military. The barrel was the same for bot 38 special and 38 Mil except for the mark. I doubt there were many of these that were made up like this. This one has all matching numbers so it had to leave the factory like this. Now to see if my offer is good. The guy is slow getting back to us.
StrawHat
SWCA Member
Gary is absolutely correct, the 38 S&W Special is longer than the 38 Colt. S&W designed it that way to increase the capacity and make a more powerful 36 caliber cartridge. They would do the same thing 3 decades later to make the 357 Magnum.
If the Special fits flush in the cylinder, I do not know how that affects the identification of the revolver.
Kevin
If the Special fits flush in the cylinder, I do not know how that affects the identification of the revolver.
Kevin
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