Smith and Wesson M&P .38/200 German Police

I have just wait about 4 month for this revolver. Due waiting on permit and customs. I did import this revolver from Germany to the Netherlands. I bought it on a good auction from Hermann Historica. It is a war production about 1943 M&P. Caliber is .38/200. On the revolver you find the G H B inspection mark and US property. The revolver was in use by the German police. It is marked: Bavaria Muncipal Police. It was told me that the German police was not happy with this revolver. So, it was in service for about one year. Then the police bought a Spanisch pistol to replace it. But I am sure happy with it.

Congratulations on getting that one. I would be pleased to have it too.

Congrats!...It looks like a primo example......Ben

If you use the search function on this forum, you will find many postings containing about all the information you would ever want to know about the Victory model revolvers provided to German and Austrian civil police agencies during the postwar occupation period. Sadly, the forum resident expert on these revolvers, Absalom, died recently. Incidentally, the acceptance stamping should be GHD, not GHB. The U. S. PROPERTY topstrap stamping indicates that it was a Lend-Lease revolver supplied by the USA to the British Commonwealth. The official British Military name was "Pistol, Revolver, Smith and Wesson, No. 2" . They called the cartridge the ".380 Revolver, Mark II." That was the WWII version. Neither the cartridge nor the revolver was ever officially designated as the .38/200. That was used as sort of a nickname. Also, some will call the revolver a "K-200." At least on this forum, most refer to these revolvers as BSRs, which means British Service Revolver, specifically referring to the S&W, not the top-break Enfields, etc.

Good Morning, Henk

Happy to see you are still active in collecting!

Regards, Mike Priwer

Colt did not use 38-200 as a nickname.

DWalt said:

If you use the search function on this forum, you will find many postings containing about all the information you would ever want to know about the Victory model revolvers provided to German and Austrian civil police agencies during the postwar occupation period. Sadly, the resident expert on these revolvers, Absolom, died recently. Incidentally, the acceptance stamping should be GHD, not GHB. The U. S. PROPERTY topstrap stamping indicates that it was a Lend-Lease revolver supplied by the USA to the British Commonwealth. The official British Military name was "Pistol, Revolver, Smith and Wesson, No. 2" . They called the cartridge the ".380 Revolver, Mark II." That was the WWII version. Neither the cartridge nor the revolver was ever officially designated as the .38/200. That was used as sort of a nickname. Also, some will call the revolver a "K-200." At least on this forum, most refer to these revolvers as BSRs, which means British Service Revolver, specifically referring to the S&W, not the top-break Enfields, etc.

Click to expand...

They stamped that designation right on the Official police models that they shipped over there, I have one that I am pretty fond of.

Congratulations, but that was quite a wait for a WWII relic. I hope you enjoy shooting it!

The article linked below is primarily about M1 carbines provided to law enforcement groups in Bavaria during occupation, but if you scroll about 1/3 of the way down, there is information on the S&W Victory revolvers, how many were inventoried in Bavaria, and what caliber. Both .38 spl and .38 S&W were listed. A clear pic of the stamp is also in the article.

U.S. Carbines in Germany and Austria

Apparently each state had their own stamps, and the numbers of guns in their posession were inventoried after the war. They were probably in service for more than one year.

In 1948 there were 7,904 revolvers inventoried, in 1953 7.633 revolvers inventoried and to be paid for by the Bavarian state.

Details are available in the article linked above, and elsewhere. Thanks to detailed German record keeping, there are dates and numbers for each state and region, as well as how much the German state governments paid (or refused to pay) for the guns.

Below is a pic of the stamp on one in my possession, from the Bremen enclave. It seems accurate with older ammo, but not so much with some of the 38 S&W on the market today. Not sure why, but the new ammo seems to tumble and keyhole.

This is also a fairly comprehensive thread concerning the German Police revolvers, also carbines. American Occupation of Germany & Austria: Police S&W Victory Revolvers

There was also an article about them in an issue of The American Rifleman, maybe six or seven years ago. It may still be available on the AR website. I remember that the article contained several obvious errors, but was otherwise fairly accurate.

Many of the Police Victories were sold to American military personnel stationed in Germany during the Cold War period, through base Rod and Gun Clubs. I presume that many, if not most, of the German Police-marked revolvers seen in the US today got here that way. I remember reading something to the effect that the R&G Clubs were selling them as late as the mid-1960s. Others here may have better knowledge about that, as I do not.

I do not know how long the various German police agencies used the BSRs. I assume all through the occupation period and possibly even beyond. The end of the occupation is a little difficult to precisely establish, as multiple nations were involved in different parts of the country which later became West Germany. I would say that occupation of Germany (at least in the Western zone) ended around 1950. Of course the occupation of East Germany as part of the Soviet Bloc effectively continued until 1989-90 when Germany was re-unified.

.38 S&W BSR

Thuer said:

I have just wait about 4 month for this revolver. Due waiting on permit and customs. I did import this revolver from Germany to the Netherlands. I bought it on a good auction from Hermann Historica. It is a war production about 1943 M&P. Caliber is .38/200. On the revolver you find the G H B inspection mark and US property. The revolver was in use by the German police. It is marked: Bavaria Muncipal Police. It was told me that the German police was not happy with this revolver. So, it was in service for about one year. Then the police bought a Spanisch pistol to replace it. But I am sure happy with it.

Click to expand...

Congratulations on picking up such a nice example. I have 2 US Victory Models , 4" barrel .38 Special. One is from 1942 with a U.S. Navy property stamp on the left side of the frame. The other is from 1943 and has the GHD US PROPERTY marking.

A few years ago I picked up a pre lend lease .38 S&W revolver that was sent to Canada. It has a 5 " barrel marked .38 S&W. The finish is pre war commercial blue and stocks are checkered walnut pre war commercial. It also has a lanyard swivel. The serial number puts the ship date at around January or February of 1941.

Being interested in history and living close to the S&W plant these guns of real interest to me.

As the wartime demands for weapons increased the finish was changed from blue to a matt finish and the medallions and checkering were deleted from he stocks.

Some BSRs like yours were provided to the OSS for behind the lines operations.

There is an excellent movie that is available on You Tube called "Decision Before Dawn" . The film is about OSS agents recruiting German POWs for a behind the lines mission during the final days of the war. The film was released in 1951 and was filmed in Europe with American and German actors. Many of the scenes were shot in areas that were still in ruins which added a lot of realism.

There is a brief but interesting scene showing the recruits in training. During the weapons training the actors are firing 5" M&Ps at targets against a snow covered bank.

Since there were a lot of these revolvers around in post war Europe it is not surprising that they would show up as props.

I reload the .38 S&W round for mine as well as .38 Special. Both versions are great shooters and full of history.

Good luck with yours.

Charlie Foxtrott said:

They stamped that designation right on the Official police models that they shipped over there, I have one that I am pretty fond of.

Click to expand...

I have one of those also. It took me several years to obtain it and I am not letting it go.

I am not an expert on the 38/200-stamped Colt OPs, but I have read that they were contracted by the BPC to Colt prior to Lend-Lease, and that most of them went to the London Police, not the military. And also that many found their way to Australia. Just why the barrels were stamped 38/200 is not available, other than that was probably what the BPC wanted done. I knew that they existed, but, despite the fact I own eight OPs, I have yet to see one having the 38/200 stamping. I guess I need to pull out my copy of Pate to see if he provides any information.

DWalt said:

I am not an expert on the 38/200-stamped Colt OPs, but I have read that they were contracted by the BPC to Colt prior to Lend-Lease, and that most of them went to the London Police, not the military. And also that many found their way to Australia. Just why the barrels were stamped 38/200 is not available, other than that was probably what the BPC wanted done. I knew that they existed, but, despite the fact I own eight OPs, I have yet to see one having the 38/200 stamping. I guess I need to pull out my copy of Pate to see if he provides any information.

Click to expand...

My example was made in July 41 and shipped to the British Purchasing Commission in New York City. That is all Colt has on it. There are no importer stamps on it and it was not converted to 38 Special. There are London Proof house stamps on it and a crown symbol stamp. How it got into the states is anybody's guess. I've been told that one fo the stamps shows that it was released as surplus for civian sales which places it in the late fifties. I don't know how accurate that it but that's what I have been told. It's still a neat piece.

Thanks for your good and informative reactions. Yes I did mistyped GHB it is ofcource GHD. I did take a picture with its Canadian brother. The only flaw is that someone adjust the frontsight. I love old Smith and Wesson revolvers. My collection is growing and growing. I am afraid that I do not stop to collect them. Maybe when i am dead or so.

Mine dates to 1941 also.

Checkman said:

My example was made in July 41 and shipped to the British Purchasing Commission in New York City. That is all Colt has on it. There are no importer stamps on it and it was not converted to 38 Special. There are London Proof house stamps on it and a crown symbol stamp. How it got into the states is anybody's guess. I've been told that one fo the stamps shows that it was released as surplus for civian sales which places it in the late fifties. I don't know how accurate that it but that's what I have been told. It's still a neat piece.

Click to expand...

But there are no proof marks on it.

Charlie Foxtrott said:

But there are no proof marks on it.

Click to expand...

The proofs are on the other side. I'll post a photo of the marks later today.

Actually, here they are.






For fun. My newest OP next to my M&P w/5"bl (mfd 1947), OP in 38 Spl w/4"bl (mfd. 1935) and my pre war Heavy Duty (mfd. 1937).Yes I know the target grips on the Heavy Duty aren't period correct, but I like them.