38 M&P Model 1905, 4th Change

[JaceMan1970]

Any thoughts on value of this 38 M&P Model 1905, 4th Change? Was told manufacture date around 1919?

 

[Retired W4]

Funny. I just used the word conjecture in another post. More evidence is needed.

Ahh. Didn't see the photos at first.

 

[Truckman]

Was told manufacture date around 1919?

Maybe a little earlier during WWI when logo stamping was not used?......Ben

 

[Model19man]

Any thoughts on value of this 38 M&P Model 1905, 4th Change? Was told manufacture date around 1919?

Smith and Wesson was notorious for shipping revolvers that were not even close to their manufacture date. You need a letter from Smith and Wesson to know that date and the manufacture date.

Without a letter the S&W Fourth Edition lists value as $600 in "Exc" condition which I think describes your revolver accurately. S&W made a buttload of these which explains the low value.

 

[g-dad]

Good looking piece! Mine lettered a bit earlier Nov 16 1917. S/N 268828.

 

[Sevens]

My guess for ship date would be March, 1920.

Build date: March 1920 or before, hahaha.

I definitely love the condition but I am in no position to suggest a value. I can say that while condition does typically “mean everything”, for some levity it’s good to remember that no single model of handgun was produced in more volume for commercial sale, so unless it has some really odd original feature that I am not seeing, it’s a high condition but extremely common model.

I would be thrilled to own it.

 

[DWalt]

Probably shipped around mid-1919. Definitely made pre-1920. And S&W cataloged it at that time as the .38 Military and Police (M&P) Model, Square Butt. Appears to be correct. There is no way to know when it was made, only when it shipped. And S&W did not ship in SN order but randomly. Exact shipping date would require a $100 historical letter if dating information is that valuable to you.

 

[slugraduate]

I just purchased SN 388138 today. Just trying to guess the average monthly production numbers between some known, shipped, serial number dates, I estimate mine to be manufactured between 11/2021 and 2/1922.

 

[rct269]

Smith and Wesson was notorious for shipping revolvers that were not even close to their manufacture date. You need a letter from Smith and Wesson to know that date and the manufacture date.

Without a letter the S&W Fourth Edition lists value as $600 in "Exc" condition which I think describes your revolver accurately. S&W made a buttload of these which explains the low value.

While it would be a "nice to know" piece of information, the completion date of any given item is generally unknown. (Note the use of the weasel word "generally". That's because some completion dates are known.

Two of my 3rd Model Single Shots were numbered such that I surmised they just might have been completed on the same day (4807 and 4826---a 6" and 8" respectively)------and then I mustered up enough courage to ask, hoping beyond hope I didn't get my head handed to me!

Here's what's what with those two----and the very gentlemanly upbraiding I got for asking.

4807 was------"part of the production run of 31 units completed on May 9, 1911 and entered into the shipping vault on that date." As an aside, that pistol wasn't shipped until November 11, 1915. (You reckon maybe that's where the phrase "Go figure!" originated?)

4826 was--------"completed on June 21, 1911"------and shipped on June 24, 1911. That snappy service was because it was a "special order for a single unit".

Then, just to make sure I understood all this, this little shot was added: "This certainly establishes that they were not produced in the same production lot of Perfected Single Shot Pistols."

I tell this little tale only to emphasize the fact a letter is NOT going to tell you the manufacture date of an item----just the shipping date.

I dare say our letter folks have access to virtually all of the shipping records. They very clearly also have access to SOME of the completion dates---but not nearly enough to be able to provide them to us on a regular basis.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[DWalt]

Mactufacturing date is a nebulous term as a revolver is assembled from bins of components, some of which could have been made years earlier or later than others in the same bin. An assembly and finish date, i.e., when the revolver was completed and placed in its shipping container and sent to the shipping area vault would be nice to know but is generally unavailable. And the gun could reside in the vault from days to years, depending on the sales trends, before it was shipped anywhere. The shipping date is the only data that was routinely recorded by S&W and can be tracked with some consistency. Personally, knowing only a gun's approximate shipping date is good enough for me as I have no need to know an exact shipping date for any reason. Does it really matter whether a certain revolver left the factory on November 26, 1934 or on April 4, 1935 as it is still exactly the same revolver? And I am not inclined to pay $100 to find out which.