DESTROYED MY K38 TODAY/ update #139/ range report post #148

I have a couple pix of a blown M10 that I used for many years as a prop for teaching Hunters Ed, here in WMontana. Having trouble attaching, any suggestions?

I have a couple pix of a blown M10 that I used for many years as a prop for teaching Hunters Ed, here in WMontana. Note that the knothead had already welded around the forcing cone, from a previous hot load, but continued pushing his luck, having read, but not understood old Elmer (Keith). I thought this might be of interest on this thread.

Tragic. I can commiserate. Here's what remains of a 442 after I think I put a double-charge of Accurate #5 through it.

raylesworth said:

View attachment 728620

View attachment 728621I have a couple pix of a blown M10 that I used for many years as a prop for teaching Hunters Ed, here in WMontana. Note that the knothead had already welded around the forcing cone, from a previous hot load, but continued pushing his luck, having read, but not understood old Elmer (Keith). I thought this might be of interest on this thread.

Click to expand...

Some people shouldn't be allowed access to tools - including guns.

BC38 said:

Some people shouldn't be allowed access to tools - including guns.

Click to expand...

Or reloading equipment.

If the Chrony reads, "Holy Smokes", does that mean the
bullet passed over, and the gun blew up?

SlamFire said:

He did say he saw only one shooter who used a Colt. Colts went out of time faster than the S&W pistols. But shooters did use Colt barrels on their S&W pistols because Colt barrels were tighter, and more accurate. Colt barrels tend to measure 0.355" compared to 0.357" for S&W.

Click to expand...

I have installed python barrels on 2 K frames. I have fired both of them from my Ransom rest. Neither is noticeably more accurate than any of my other K frame 38 specials

In response to post #45 with the Brownells clip,
It's called detonation and I believe it is a myth. It was never recreated in numerous lab experiments designed to duplicate the result.
There are many published loads where a relatively quick burning powder at a starting charge can lay below the the primer hole in a horizontal position.
That said, the theory makes sense but I have no intention of putting it to the test. Stay within published loading data for both min and max charges.

Detonation is a way better explanation than I screwed up and loaded a double charge of real fast powder

My Gunsmith once told me a story of a guy he knew, that ruined a Model 52 with an ultra light load. They suspected detonation.

Shoot long enough, and you’ll see some weird things happen.

steelslaver said:

Detonation is a way better explanation than I screwed up and loaded a double charge of real fast powder

Click to expand...

I agree. I always found it hard to believe that 2.7 gr of Bullseye under a 148 grain wadcutter in 38 Special brass could be the gold standard for target shooting, yet somehow detonated with someone's reloads.

and 5.4 grains of bullseye wouldn't come close to spilling over and be well into the KEBOOM range. The number of ways a double charge could happen and go unnoticed are way greater than the chances of detonation, when nobody has been able to demonstrate a way that causes detonation

Reload long enough and it could happen. The odds go way up when you use powders that don't overfill the case with a double charge

I stopped reading after the first three pages so forgive if this was asked and answered.

Did you reach out to S&W to see if repair is possible? I think they stopped working on older guns but not sure of the date. Otherwise perhaps a local gun smith could look it over and make an assessment. There are plenty of barrels around for sale so perhaps give Numrich or other suppliers a look see to see what's out there.

Not sure what you have into the gun or if it's even worth putting a few hundred back into it. Might be better served to put that money into a new gun and just chalk it up to a loss.

As others have stated there are still a lot of salvageable parts that could go into a new purchase.

Personally, I would probably go the repair route first but that's me. I hate to see guns parted out if repairable.

JSR III said:

I stopped reading after the first three pages so forgive if this was asked and answered.

Did you reach out to S&W to see if repair is possible? I think they stopped working on older guns but not sure of the date. Otherwise perhaps a local gun smith could look it over and make an assessment. There are plenty of barrels around for sale so perhaps give Numrich or other suppliers a look see to see what's out there.

Not sure what you have into the gun or if it's even worth putting a few hundred back into it. Might be better served to put that money into a new gun and just chalk it up to a loss.

As others have stated there are still a lot of salvageable parts that could go into a new purchase.

Personally, I would probably go the repair route first but that's me. I hate to see guns parted out if repairable.

Click to expand...

James;

The factory gunsmiths generally will not accept any pre-model stamped gun for repair. In this instance, even if the OP sent them the gun and a correct replacement barrel they still would not, on the chance they found any other parts needing replacement that they no longer have in stock.

The hand loader mistake doesn’t apply in this instance. He as shooting Norma jacketed ammo.

The previous round seemed hotter than usual.

Could Norma have made a mistake?

Deno56: Do you have any of the Norma ammunition you were using left yet? If so you may want to contact Norma and inform them of this event. They may elect to help pay for damages to your firearm if their ammunition is found to be faulty. I hope you kept the box the ammo came in along with any remaining ammo to record the lot numbers. If as you say there was an noticeable increase in perceived power as you were shooting this Norma ammunition it may be indicative of a seriously flawed lot of ammunition they made. Don't get rid of any remaining Norma ammunition that you used, nor the empty cases, until you know where this is going. If you contact Norma they may tell you more or they may not. Unfortunately we will never be able to find out about other such incidents and lot numbers of the involved ammunition, unless people post their incidents here.

As an aside, I don't monkey with Norma ammunition anymore and I stopped reloading Norma cases when I had a problem de-priming them. I am not sure where Norma is made anymore, but I would certainly contact them and report this matter. Obviously I nor most others can't say with certainty what happened in your situation, but the cop in me would like to investigate this further. That investigation would lead to the ammunition itself first and the firearm second. In reality you should have no issues shooting 158 grain bullets in that revolver as long as the pressure levels are safe. Good luck!

Rick H.

P.S. Don't send Norma ALL the remaining ammunition though if they ask for it. Keep a couple rounds just in case but don't use them.

steelslaver said:

and 5.4 grains of bullseye wouldn't come close to spilling over and be well into the KEBOOM range. The number of ways a double charge could happen and go unnoticed are way greater than the chances of detonation, when nobody has been able to demonstrate a way that causes detonation

Reload long enough and it could happen. The odds go way up when you use powders that don't overfill the case with a double charge

Click to expand...

Apologies for the thread drift, but people frequently mention overcharges of fast powder and the bad stuff that happens. I ran three Quickload simulations with a Hornady 148 gr HBWC in 38 Special. Charges were the classic 2.7 gr of Bullseye, and then a double and triple overcharge. Disregarding that the HBWC bullet may not survive intact, it seems the pressures could be contained in a K-38. Certainly firing the overloads should get your attention, but a kaboom is unlikely. Another thing, if the handloader is paying attention, a double or triple charge of Bullseye is readily visible in the case. Note the fill ratios. One just has to look into the charged cases. This is why I think it's unwise to charge a case and immediately seat the bullet. Charging all the cases in a loading block and inspecting relative fill ratios make a double charged case stick out like a sore thumb.

From Quickload:

Charge___Peak Pressure___Fill Ratio___Velocity

2.7 gr____5365 psi_______23.2%_____628 fps
5.4 gr____17697 psi______46.5%_____1066 fps
8.1 gr____37639 psi______69.7%_____1391 fps

Yendor357 said:

The hand loader mistake doesn’t apply in this instance. He as shooting Norma jacketed ammo.

The previous round seemed hotter than usual.

Could Norma have made a mistake?

Click to expand...

These days Norma is just a brand name not the original Norma of Sweden manufactured ammo. Been made by different companies over a period of time but probably made in Hungary in recent years. I think an EU code on the box indicates Hungarian mfg regardless of brand name on the box.

Picked up my K38 FROM THE GUN SHOP TODAY

I picked up my revolver from the gun shop today the smith did a great job fixing it. He replaced the barrel with one I picked up on Ebay( thanks to forum member SuperMan for letting me know it was on Ebay). The cylinder was not damaged, so he used the original one. will take it to the range tomorrow, he test fired 6 rounds and everything looks good.

Best outcome! Let us know how it shoots.