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Early 357 Ammo
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Gary:
I think the pre-war codes for Peters transcended the war. The general thought is that the Kings Mills or Cincinnati address on the underside of the box indicates pre-war, the Bridgeport address suggests postwar. I will stand corrected on any of the above info by anyone who is knowledgeable.
Ed
I think the pre-war codes for Peters transcended the war. The general thought is that the Kings Mills or Cincinnati address on the underside of the box indicates pre-war, the Bridgeport address suggests postwar. I will stand corrected on any of the above info by anyone who is knowledgeable.
Ed
M1911 - I'd hazard a guess that your box is pre-war.
The Bridgeport address doesn't necessarily mean that a box of Peters ammunition so marked is post-war. Remington bought Peters in May of 1934, and in 1935, all metallic ammunition production was moved from Kings Mills to Bridgeport.
I have two boxes of Peters large primer, pre-war, .357 magnum ammunition, both #3575, one marked Kings Mills and the other marked Bridgeport. To further add to the confusion, for a period of time, until the stock on hand was used up, metallic ammunition produced in Bridgeport was shipped in Kings Mills boxes.
The Kings Mills address disappeared from the Peters Catalogs in 1940. In June of 1942, metallic cartridge production at Kings Mills resumed, as some .45ACP and mostly .30 Carbine, were produced in support of the war effort.
The Kings Mills Ordinance Plant closed down .30 Carbine production on March 31, 1944, and in July, the plant was closed. A short time later, the Kings Mills plant was acquired by Delco Remy to make parts for landing (Higgins) boats.
Hope I haven't further confused the situation, but it is easy to discern that dating ammunition is not an exact science. Just like we know when it comes to S&Ws, the companies were in business to make money, not to create a road map for collectors. While we have learned to "never say never" in regard to what S&W did, the same holds true for the manufacturers of ammunition.
Hope this helps a little.
Best regards,
SRT
P.S. - The last really nice, collectible, full box of #3575 Peters .357 I saw sold at auction for $660.
Both of the boxes of extremely rare "Highway Patrol" ammunition pictured below are of Kings Mills manufacture:
Although not Peters, pictured below is one of the very earliest boxes of .357 Magnum ammunition commercially available:
The Bridgeport address doesn't necessarily mean that a box of Peters ammunition so marked is post-war. Remington bought Peters in May of 1934, and in 1935, all metallic ammunition production was moved from Kings Mills to Bridgeport.
I have two boxes of Peters large primer, pre-war, .357 magnum ammunition, both #3575, one marked Kings Mills and the other marked Bridgeport. To further add to the confusion, for a period of time, until the stock on hand was used up, metallic ammunition produced in Bridgeport was shipped in Kings Mills boxes.
The Kings Mills address disappeared from the Peters Catalogs in 1940. In June of 1942, metallic cartridge production at Kings Mills resumed, as some .45ACP and mostly .30 Carbine, were produced in support of the war effort.
The Kings Mills Ordinance Plant closed down .30 Carbine production on March 31, 1944, and in July, the plant was closed. A short time later, the Kings Mills plant was acquired by Delco Remy to make parts for landing (Higgins) boats.
Hope I haven't further confused the situation, but it is easy to discern that dating ammunition is not an exact science. Just like we know when it comes to S&Ws, the companies were in business to make money, not to create a road map for collectors. While we have learned to "never say never" in regard to what S&W did, the same holds true for the manufacturers of ammunition.
Hope this helps a little.
Best regards,
SRT
P.S. - The last really nice, collectible, full box of #3575 Peters .357 I saw sold at auction for $660.
Both of the boxes of extremely rare "Highway Patrol" ammunition pictured below are of Kings Mills manufacture:
Although not Peters, pictured below is one of the very earliest boxes of .357 Magnum ammunition commercially available:
rburg
Member
The Kings Mills thing is interesting. I have a buddy who's father-in-law owns the place. Its in terrible disrepair these days. One of our Posters, Mustang51 flew over it last year and posted pics of the place. Anyone driving I-71 around exit 25 can make a 5 minute detour and drive to the plant. Its better in winter or cool weather when there are no leaves. The remains of that plant are on the east side of the river. In winter if you walk back across the bridge and explore the south side, you'll find all the old levee and bunker works where they produced the black powder.
The shot tower is it disrepair (I'm told the owner wants a new roof on it, but that looks pretty scary.) Parts of the plant on the north side of the road are just ruins. Apparently there was a fire in the distant past.
Thanks to Jim for posting the photos. We need more of that kind of historical thing so we can date boxes.
The shot tower is it disrepair (I'm told the owner wants a new roof on it, but that looks pretty scary.) Parts of the plant on the north side of the road are just ruins. Apparently there was a fire in the distant past.
Thanks to Jim for posting the photos. We need more of that kind of historical thing so we can date boxes.
Originally posted by SRT:
M1911 - I'd hazard a guess that your box is pre-war.
The Bridgeport address doesn't necessarily mean that a box of Peters ammunition so marked is post-war. Remington bought Peters in May of 1934, and in 1935, all metallic ammunition production was moved from Kings Mills to Bridgeport.
I have two boxes of Peters large primer, pre-war, .357 magnum ammunition, both #3575, one marked Kings Mills and the other marked Bridgeport. To further add to the confusion, for a period of time, until the stock on hand was used up, metallic ammunition produced in Bridgeport was shipped in Kings Mills boxes.
The Kings Mills address disappeared from the Peters Catalogs in 1940. In June of 1942, metallic cartridge production at Kings Mills resumed, as some .45ACP and mostly .30 Carbine, were produced in support of the war effort.
The Kings Mills Ordinance Plant closed down .30 Carbine production on March 31, 1944, and in July, the plant was closed. A short time later, the Kings Mills plant was acquired by Delco Remy to make parts for landing (Higgins) boats.
Hope I haven't further confused the situation, but it is easy to discern that dating ammunition is not an exact science. Just like we know when it comes to S&Ws, the companies were in business to make money, not to create a road map for collectors. While we have learned to "never say never" in regard to what S&W did, the same holds true for the manufacturers of ammunition.
Hope this helps a little.
Best regards,
SRT
P.S. - The last really nice, collectible, full box of #3575 Peters .357 I saw sold at auction for $660.
SRT,
I have a box exactly like your #3575 Peters .357 Magnum that is Bridgeport marked. I had dated it to late '30's, early '40's. If I read your comments correctly it was actually made between 1940 and 1942 when the Bridgeport address was used between the King's Mill address.
I'm astounded by the auction price that you posted (I might also say "pleased" since my box is in excellent shape and unfired.) I don't recall what I paid for it but I doubt that it was much more than $25, certainly less than $50. (There is a price of $5.10 written in pencil on the side of the box. It has appreciated as much as the gun that it was manufactured for
Bob
Originally posted by bettis1:
I'm astounded by the auction price that you posted (I might also say "pleased" since my box is in excellent shape and unfired.) I don't recall what I paid for it but I doubt that it was much more than $25, certainly less than $50. (There is a price of $5.10 written in pencil on the side of the box. It has appreciated as much as the gun that it was manufactured for)
Bob
Bob:
I must confess that I was one of the bidders that drove the auction price up. It was Lot
A011 at the Kull & Supica auction in Topeka on Friday, October 27, 2006.
I believe it went to a telephone bidder. I stopped at 5 large, and it went for $600, plus a 10% buyer's premium, for a total of $660.
A partially full box of the early Winchester .357 like I have pictured in my earlier post, along with a full box (Lot A222), both in very good condition, sold for $1210, including the buyer's premium.
This stuff is rare, and they ain't a makin' it no more, and the price reflects it!
Best regards,
Jim
Jim,
Thanks for the heads up on the Winchester. I just looked in my locker but I don't have any .357 Winchester like that one. But I did find a full box of Winchester .38 S&W Spec. MidRange Sharp Corner Match of the same style as the .357. I think it is also pretty scarce box and dates from around 1932-35. I paid $25 for that one also.
Bob
Thanks for the heads up on the Winchester. I just looked in my locker but I don't have any .357 Winchester like that one. But I did find a full box of Winchester .38 S&W Spec. MidRange Sharp Corner Match of the same style as the .357. I think it is also pretty scarce box and dates from around 1932-35. I paid $25 for that one also.
Bob
G
Guest
Guest
Jim I am still in dire need of a Peters 38 Special "Highway Patrol". Might even have some of that good Peters 357 ava. for trades. Regards. Tony
I'm sorry, Tony but my Peters HP isn't for sale/trade, for I could not replace it. This ammo makes the .357 pre-war Peters look common. If I ever decide to part with it, however, you'll be first on my list. Jim
Bump so this thread doesn't fall into cyberspace.
Ed
Ed
I just picked up two boxes of Peters .38 Special Highway Patrol, 110 Grain Metal Penetrating ammo that is a little different than those pictured here. I could use a little help on the ID. The flap number is 3810.
The box differs slightly in that the red HIGH VELOCITY ribbon extends from one end of the box to the other instead of being shorter with the rounded ends on the ribbon. Below that, instead of the image of the round, it simply says 38 SPECIAL. The sides have a diagonal yellow stripe with the words HIGHWAY PATROL on them. The back is slightly different also but it is a Bridgeport address.
Any help with a date or value range would be appreciated.
Bob
The box differs slightly in that the red HIGH VELOCITY ribbon extends from one end of the box to the other instead of being shorter with the rounded ends on the ribbon. Below that, instead of the image of the round, it simply says 38 SPECIAL. The sides have a diagonal yellow stripe with the words HIGHWAY PATROL on them. The back is slightly different also but it is a Bridgeport address.
Any help with a date or value range would be appreciated.
Bob
Bob:
Possibly the design is from 1950-62. I have a mid-50s Peters ammo guide somewhere and will provide info on the round when I uncover it. The big red ball design started in '62. Nice acquisitions.
Ed
Possibly the design is from 1950-62. I have a mid-50s Peters ammo guide somewhere and will provide info on the round when I uncover it. The big red ball design started in '62. Nice acquisitions.
Ed
rburg
Member
Scary as this sounds, there were 2 boxes of prewar 357s at the OGCA show today. They were wrapped in plastic, and both were marked $400. By the end of the walk we were tired. I was going to go back and talk to the guy.
I don't trust ammo sellers. I'm not saying they're all crooks. I guess someplace there may be an honest one, maybe. I've been taken a few times by plastic wrapped boxes. Always been told "its just to protect the great old box" or "to keep someone from stealing a round or two."
What I've always translated that into was "I just filled it with odds and ends, so you're paying for the box you can see."
Oh, the ammo. It was a box of metal piercing and another of, I think, Lubaloy. The guy also had some 38-44 High Velocity. Kinda makes me wish I'd brought along more $100 bills.
I don't trust ammo sellers. I'm not saying they're all crooks. I guess someplace there may be an honest one, maybe. I've been taken a few times by plastic wrapped boxes. Always been told "its just to protect the great old box" or "to keep someone from stealing a round or two."
What I've always translated that into was "I just filled it with odds and ends, so you're paying for the box you can see."
Oh, the ammo. It was a box of metal piercing and another of, I think, Lubaloy. The guy also had some 38-44 High Velocity. Kinda makes me wish I'd brought along more $100 bills.
BRush
SWCA Member
Your not alone on this Dick. The plastic not only hides the box contents but also damage to the box. After years of trusting these sellers, I now only buy if after I negotiate the price and put my money on the table, I tell the seller the deal closes only after I open the box and confirm the represented condition and contents. There should be no objection from the seller but I've actually had a few refuse. That tells me all I need to know.
Rush and Dick,
Your points are well taken, however, there is a problem with unsealed boxes. For safety's sake, most shows will allow no unsealed boxes of ammunition on the tables. A strip of scotch tape on each end works fine for new ammo, but that tape is the kiss of death on a rare box of ammo in prime shape(something akin to drilling the rib of a reg. mag. for a scope mount
).
I don't sell my collection of ammo boxes but when I bring a new one home, I wrap it in plastic to use in various gun displays. (I'll have some boxes that are appropriate for the pre-war Magnums at the SWCA show at Troy MI in a couple of weeks.)
The wrapping is a pretty simple thing. I just split open a plastic sandwich bag and wrap the box like a Christmas package with a piece of tape sealing each end of the package. If I need to unwrap it to check out something inside, it is easy to reseal. You can have places like Office Depot and others actually do a shrink wrap but that is more costly, less flexible in accessing the insides, and doesn't look that much better on a display.
Bob
Your points are well taken, however, there is a problem with unsealed boxes. For safety's sake, most shows will allow no unsealed boxes of ammunition on the tables. A strip of scotch tape on each end works fine for new ammo, but that tape is the kiss of death on a rare box of ammo in prime shape(something akin to drilling the rib of a reg. mag. for a scope mount
I don't sell my collection of ammo boxes but when I bring a new one home, I wrap it in plastic to use in various gun displays. (I'll have some boxes that are appropriate for the pre-war Magnums at the SWCA show at Troy MI in a couple of weeks.)
The wrapping is a pretty simple thing. I just split open a plastic sandwich bag and wrap the box like a Christmas package with a piece of tape sealing each end of the package. If I need to unwrap it to check out something inside, it is easy to reseal. You can have places like Office Depot and others actually do a shrink wrap but that is more costly, less flexible in accessing the insides, and doesn't look that much better on a display.
Bob
BIG smile on my face.
At a small, high quality show yesterday I found a beautiful 1935 box of Winchester .357 Magnum. (The box like the one that Jim pictured in post #3 on the first page of this thread.)
I believe that this was the first offering of .357 Magnum ammo other than a possible packaging by U S Cartridge Co. that may have preceded the 1935 Winchester box. I've never seen that U S C box so if anyone has one I'd sure love to see it.
Bob
At a small, high quality show yesterday I found a beautiful 1935 box of Winchester .357 Magnum. (The box like the one that Jim pictured in post #3 on the first page of this thread.)
I believe that this was the first offering of .357 Magnum ammo other than a possible packaging by U S Cartridge Co. that may have preceded the 1935 Winchester box. I've never seen that U S C box so if anyone has one I'd sure love to see it.
Bob
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This thread only has ONE page for me.
Go into your User CP, and select the option that shows 40 posts per page.
Mr. Bob,
Check out Dave's album-
357 Pre-War Ammo Pics
Thanks Lee. I had forgotten about Dave's album.
Ray Giles told me that he thinks that the USC box was used first as a sort of a trial balloon for the packaging when they had some concerns as to whether or not the ammo would be successful. (Read that as hoping it wouldn't break someone's arm.
)
I had just left my settings at the "Forum Default" since I assumed that was what was desired by the owner.
Bob
Ray Giles told me that he thinks that the USC box was used first as a sort of a trial balloon for the packaging when they had some concerns as to whether or not the ammo would be successful. (Read that as hoping it wouldn't break someone's arm.
)I had just left my settings at the "Forum Default" since I assumed that was what was desired by the owner.
Bob
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