The new Merwin & Hulbert Company

Finding the proper forum for this one would be difficult considering this is not a Smith & Wesson. I believe this forum probably gets the most viewing and more experienced collectors as myself.

There is a thread that I have started over at the FIREARMS FORUM about the new Merwin & Hulbert Company that was started just in the past couple of years. I decided to bring it over hear too.

This is what I have posted at the FIREARMS FORUM website:

Merwin & Hulbert revolvers are probably the most interesting and well built revolvers of the late 19th century. They were very high quality revolvers and were right up there in competition with Colt, Smith & Wesson, and Remington. These guns are difficult to find and ones in better grades are scarce not to mention pricey.

A while back I was researching a Merwin & Hulbert revolver that I had purchased and I found this website for the Merwin & Hulbert Co.:

http://www.merwinhulbertco.com/

This is a new start-up company that is going to be making modern firing reproductions of the guns made by the original Merwin, Hulbert & Co. [a division of Hopkins & Allen]. According to their website, these guns are going to be upgraded to modern gun steels and to be chambered for modern smokeless ammunition: .45 Long Colt, .44-40, .44 Special, .44 Russian, .38 Special and .357 Magnum.

Just recently I came back to their website to check on what their current progress is. I also joined their forum to get answers to some of my questions. Here are my questions posted at their forum:

http://www.forum.merwinhulbertco.com...page=0#Post800

This site has a small but growing forum of its own with quite a bit of activity in just the past year.

The Colt Forum has an ongoing thread about this company also at this link:

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=127120

A lot of people, myself included, are quite interested in purchasing a gun from them. But all that appears to be going on so far is they are taking orders on a customer order basis. That being caliber, barrel length, finish, and whether a customer wants extra cylinders or barrels at an additional cost. The company has yet to post any pictures of their guns or a time frame about when production will begin. The guns are $1250.00 [with no extras] with the company wanting a 20% non-refundable deposit, or $350.00. The deposit alone [keyword here non-refundable] has myself and a number of people a bit hesitant to commit to ordering. If the company folds the money is gone with no way to recover it.

There doesn't seem to be much hype about this company other than what can be found at their website or from postings at their forum or other website forums. It seems a lot more needs to be shown on their website.

I'm doing some research on my own about this company before I decide on anything. I know there are others out there doing the same thing. Is there anyone out there who has dealt with this company yet? Has anyone out there sent them a deposit and placed an order for a gun. I would definately like to hear from you.

I am asking all those S&W and other collectors what they might know about this company. Comments, answers and inquiries are welcome.

jsmith

Don't know about the "new" company...

...but the old one (Merwin & Bray before the Hulbert partnership) was around long before me.









The Relics Corner

Some very interesting arms were produced by Merwin Hulbert. This is my favorite. Boxed 2 barrel set .32 with 5 1/2 and 3 inch barrels with cleaning rod. Inscription on interior states it was presented c.1898 as a gift and names the recipient, his address, and the person presenting the weapon to him. These were extremely precision made arms. I don't believe this one has ever been fired.

This Merwin & Hulbert was just posted yesterday in the Detroit Police picture thread. It is marked DPD, with an inventory #143. What an awesome find!

Quote from O.P. "I just picked up a really rough but original Merwin Hulbert folding hammer .38 stamped DPD 143 checked in to Detroit in the 1880's sold to fletchers hardware for $4 in the early 1900s."

It's odd that they talk about prototypes, testing, etc and don't have anything posted showing the results... I understand there are delays, and they seem to be trying to do on demand production and sub-contracting out the production -- all of which does make sense for producing limited run guns, but there still should be samples, etc to be shown.

I believe it would probably be best to proceed with caution. Are there any endorsements from industry associates, gun writers or satisfied customers? I mean, who are their clients and where is their products, who has reviewed and evaluated them? Too many questions, not enough answers, seems to me. Perhaps they make a very good product, but why aren't they reaching the market. From what I've heard here, I think the consensus is "be careful".

I took the plunge and ordered one of the new ones by putting down the deposit. Some question gambling on the money that way. I couldn't be any worse than the stock market recently.

Bonus is I'm supporting a USA made product. Not that the Italians are not satisfactory products.

My opinion is that its good to see someone in the USA trying to manufacture and sell a product instead of running around with their hand held out, palm up, looking for handouts of cash taken from from those who are working and producing.

You may have different opinions.

rayb

Oldflatfoot is right, I wouldn't give them any money at this time. There are too many red flags coming up at the moment.

- 20% non-refundable deposit [at least $350.00]
- no pictures of their products, not even a prototype
- their website forum says their still pretty much in the design phase
- no set production dates, maybe in the fall, perhaps by 2010
- no mention of any factory warranty, guarantee, gunsmithing, returns, etc.

And to top it off, this website has been up for at least a couple of years. Only recently has there been some activity on it, especially in their forums. Their moderator, MONTANIAN, has been answering emails on their forum and also on the Colt Forum. He is part of that company.

I have been researching online, checking gun magazines and looking for any articles about this. Very little to be found at the moment. Even I would like to know who their clients are. I have read every posting in their forums and only one registered forum user has said that he has placed an order. A lot more needs to be seen and heard from this company. Why hasn't there been any articles in any gun magazines and publications?

I own an original .32 caliber five-shot Merwin & Hulbert [serial #13609] and do actually shoot it. But the originals are designed for blackpowder loads which I load and use. The wall thickness between the outside of the cylinder and the inside of the chamber are much thinner than on other types of guns from the era. Using modern smokeless .32 S&W load [which is loaded to the blackpowder equivalent] would probably start to bulge and eventually crack the cylinder walls after awhile do to the faster burning powder charge. And my gun is in to nice a condition to wreck.

They said there will be additions coming to their website soon. I would definately order a gun and extra parts from them but I need to wait and see. A Merwin that I can fire modern ammunition out of would be great. It would save wear and tear on the originals. I hope this company can do it. The Merwin & Hulbert revolvers, I think, are about the only type of guns that haven't had modern reproductions made of yet.

jsmith

oldflatfoot said:

Some very interesting arms were produced by Merwin Hulbert. This is my favorite. Boxed 2 barrel set .32 with 5 1/2 and 3 inch barrels with cleaning rod. Inscription on interior states it was presented c.1898 as a gift and names the recipient, his address, and the person presenting the weapon to him. These were extremely precision made arms. I don't believe this one has ever been fired.

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Very impressive! If you don't mind me asking, what would be the value on that set? I don't believe I've ever seen one.

rayb:

No offense, you were the one I was referring to in my last post. I don't like to mention names.

I'm not trying to give any bad opinions about this company. Need to see pictures of what is being offered. There are a lot of people out there waiting to see before they commit to ordering. I would take the plunge and order one myself. A $350.00 gamble is not a problem for me. The problem for me is ordering one and then never getting it due to the company going under.

I am not a big fan of modern foreign made guns such as Uberti. No offense in general. Foreign guns are just as much satisfactory as ours. But I am like you, believe in Made in the U.S.A.

I do wish this company all the luck in the world. Merwin & Hulbert revolvers were right up there in quality and craftmanship with Smith & Wesson.

jsmith

gunlovingirl said:

Very impressive! If you don't mind me asking, what would be the value on that set? I don't believe I've ever seen one.

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Misty;

Thank you! It's been difficult to establish a bottom line estimate for several reasons. Depending upon which source one would rely upon for a valuation, the consensus value range of this set seems to be $3500.00 to $4500.00 new in the box. One collector has offered me $5000.00 and I have declined.The end label is also perfect and reflects the spare barrel as original to the set, not a later purchase. I am no expert on Merwin Hulberts and have owned just a few over the years, primarily because they are mechanically so unusual, sort of a romantic dalliance apart from my interest in pre war S&W/Colt double action revolvers. I inherited this one which came from the estate of a deceased relative who owned it for over 50 years. It just sits in the safe....taking up space.

oldflatfoot:

I have been looking up your gun in my books. That offer of $5000.00 is well within reason. The value of that set I would estimate between $5000.00-$7500.00.

If all the numbers match on both barrels and the frame, that would have been a special order set. Rare just in itself. You have the original gun and extra barrel in mint condition and probably never fired in the original factory box. The box just by itself would be worth over $1000.00 easily. And you also have some provenance to go with it. Merwin Hulbert revolvers are difficult to find. The example that you have is rare and almost unheard of.

I do have a question here. Are both of your barrels numbered and do they match the numbers on the gun?

jsmith

I have been collecting Merwin Hulbert & Company firearms since 1988 and like the old guns. I also ordered one of the New ones and put a deposit down. I placed the order in Jan. 09 and will get back to him today to see where we stand.
Mike is the man I am dealing with and he has had the web site domain for 7 or 8 years. His web address is Merwin Hulbert & Company and not to be confused with my web site of www.MerwinHulbert.com that I have had for 10 or 11 years.
I hope all goes well and I am sure he does also.

Modelof1891:

I'm glad to hear there are a few people out there who have placed orders. It's easing my mind about placing an order myself. I will probably wait a little longer and see what happens. But please post here whatever you find out from Mike. I just recently joined their forum. It might be long shot but I am wondering if their moderator, MONTANIAN, might be willing answer back on this thread. I noticed that he has done so on the Colt Forum.

I have already known about your website. When I get a chance I will give you the information about my Merwin Hulbert revolver for your database.

jsmith

I own one of the original Merwin & Hulbert revolvers, and i wouldn't mind owning one of the new ones. That non-refundable $350 scares me. That money is probably paying for development costs, and if there are not enough suckers, I mean customers willing to put up the money, this company is going to fold, and your deposit is gone.

Look how long we have been waiting for the Remington Model 1875 revolver from US Firearms. They are an established company, and has even one revolver been shipped to a customer?

I wish them the best of luck, but when they ship the first Merwin & Hulbert revolver, and not until that time, only then I will send in my money.

I know nothing about the "New" Merwin & Hulbert Co.,however there are two sources, one in Arizona and one in Australia that can supply/make parts for these old guns. The original M&H never made any guns. All Merwin & Hulbert marked guns, revolvers, rifles & shotguns, were made by Hopkins & Allen, except for a very few pistols & rifles assembled by Marlin Firearms Co., after they bought Hopkins & Allen in 1921. Hopkins & Allen also made Forehand & Wadsworth, and various other firearms. There are various markings and stampings on the original guns, depending on models, calibers, etc. The Merwin & Hulbert revolvers are masterpieces of gun making. I doubt any one could reproduce them for the prices quoted above, and if they could, they would only be curosity pieces, IMHO, as they are not simple guns to operate and reload. Hopkins & Allen was the 3rd largest American firearms company in their time, larger than S&W, exceeded only by Winchester & Colt. It was started in 1868 by people who had previouslly been in the gun business making Manhattan & Bacon firearms. Those Forum members who want to know the full & very interesting story of Merwin & Hulbert's guns are advised to read "The Story of Merwin Hulbert & Co. Firearms" by my old friend, now deceased, Art Phelps. Ed.

I don't think they're that complicated. If I start seeing prototype pictures, etc I'd be happy to place an order for one, but I have to see something more than just a website.

I have had deep issues of lust over one, since a buddy let me shoot his -- I can't imagine a better BBQ gun than one, esp. in say... 44 special...

opoefc said:

... Hopkins & Allen also made Forehand & Wadsworth, and various other firearms...

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US Firearms Mfg Co owns a trademark (or what ever you call it)on 'Forehand & Wadsworth'. Wonder what they might do with that & if it may lead to anything like a M&H revolver repro since it they all were Hopkins & Allen mfg.

H&A and M&H trademarks are spoken for I'd guess..

It would be nice to see a quality mfg M&H revolver in 44cal IMHO.

jsmith said:

oldflatfoot:

I have been looking up your gun in my books. That offer of $5000.00 is well within reason. The value of that set I would estimate between $5000.00-$7500.00.

If all the numbers match on both barrels and the frame, that would have been a special order set. Rare just in itself. You have the original gun and extra barrel in mint condition and probably never fired in the original factory box. The box just by itself would be worth over $1000.00 easily. And you also have some provenance to go with it. Merwin Hulbert revolvers are difficult to find. The example that you have is rare and almost unheard of.

I do have a question here. Are both of your barrels numbered and do they match the numbers on the gun?

jsmith

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jsmith;

I appreciate your opinion and as you have learned from your resources. the valuation is not simple. This was, in my opinion, definitely a special order set. I have thought so for a very long time. All serial numbers match, cylinder, both barrels and frame. Here's a photo of the box end label and another photo of the gun.


The case color on the hammer is brilliant, but the quality of my photos aren't very good. There is some minor discoloration on one side of the shorter barrel, from laying in the box for over 110 years. A few minor flecks, almost imperceptible here and there. Anyway, I thought you Merwin Hulbert guys would find the photos enjoyable. Wish they did the revolver justice, they do not at all.
Cheers!
Lefty

Thanks Lefty, and everyone who added to this thread! You have a beautiful package Lefty! And evidently a rare one! I enjoy learning about and seeing pictures of any of the antiques. Y'all certainly have some good ones!