This may not be the right place to ask this but here goes , I have the 3 rd. edition of standard catalog of S&W , the pricing of handguns seem to be much lower in the book than what people are asking ? If we cannot use this supposedly highly respected book as a fair priceing guide then what do we use ? Do we not check blue book value on cars & trucks before we buy so as not to be over charged ? respectfully Greg
standard catalog of S&W
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bamabiker
Member
The SCSW is a few years old. now.
bigmoose
Member
This book is a tremendous resource for all things S&W.
The description of the gun models, grips, boxes, sights, options, engraving, scarcity, serial number dating etc is more thorough than any other volume on the subject. I am sure somewhere in the beginning of the book there is mention of pricing. Prices are based on a period during and mostly prior to the publishing of the book. The values stated are to be used as a general guide adjusted for the time frame of the auction, sale or research.
Collectible gun prices are usually fluid, and mostly go up. The market determines the price (willing seller/willing buyer), not SCSW or Blue Book of Gun Values.
This forum is as about accurate as you are gonna get. Post a question about an item's value and within a short period of time, collectors and shooters from across the country will tell you what they recently paid, what is a good deal, what to avoid and on and on.
Use the SCSW as a guide when purchasing so you don't get ripped off. i.e. Who would have known those grips are not correct for that gun. It's all in the details. Just my opinion, but this type of view has enabled me to build a collection of quality guns at reasonable prices.
To me, the SCSW is worth every penny I spent on it.
Cap
The description of the gun models, grips, boxes, sights, options, engraving, scarcity, serial number dating etc is more thorough than any other volume on the subject. I am sure somewhere in the beginning of the book there is mention of pricing. Prices are based on a period during and mostly prior to the publishing of the book. The values stated are to be used as a general guide adjusted for the time frame of the auction, sale or research.
Collectible gun prices are usually fluid, and mostly go up. The market determines the price (willing seller/willing buyer), not SCSW or Blue Book of Gun Values.
This forum is as about accurate as you are gonna get. Post a question about an item's value and within a short period of time, collectors and shooters from across the country will tell you what they recently paid, what is a good deal, what to avoid and on and on.
Use the SCSW as a guide when purchasing so you don't get ripped off. i.e. Who would have known those grips are not correct for that gun. It's all in the details. Just my opinion, but this type of view has enabled me to build a collection of quality guns at reasonable prices.
To me, the SCSW is worth every penny I spent on it.
Cap
Greg,
Because of the lag time in getting to publication, all pricing guides (for all collectibles) are generally out of date when they hit the market. Some, like the Blue Book, try to offset that by doing annual editions but even that is imperfect since values vary tremendously in different areas. Because of the legal restrictions, guns in California may demand a large premium over the same gun in a less restrictive state. At best, a pricing guide should give you a basic idea of the value of the item and perhaps its relationship to other variations.
If you are using the 3rd Ed. of the SCSW it was published in 2006. Don't know where you are, but down here in Texas it is already 2011. If you are using a previous edition you are even further behind the curve. The best you can do is check the internet sales and gun shows and over time you will develop a feel for an appropriate price.
Bob
Because of the lag time in getting to publication, all pricing guides (for all collectibles) are generally out of date when they hit the market. Some, like the Blue Book, try to offset that by doing annual editions but even that is imperfect since values vary tremendously in different areas. Because of the legal restrictions, guns in California may demand a large premium over the same gun in a less restrictive state. At best, a pricing guide should give you a basic idea of the value of the item and perhaps its relationship to other variations.
If you are using the 3rd Ed. of the SCSW it was published in 2006. Don't know where you are, but down here in Texas it is already 2011. If you are using a previous edition you are even further behind the curve. The best you can do is check the internet sales and gun shows and over time you will develop a feel for an appropriate price.
Bob
This is just my opinion, but the best source of pricing on the Internet is searching Gunbroker.com auctions where the item you are looking for actually sold. In such you case you find what someone was actually willing to pay for something which is the ultimate determination of value of any item.
The SCSW is a great source of information on all things Smith & Wesson. After using GunBroker, the SCSW as well as the Blue Book can be used to adjust for condition or to get a relative price comparison when you can't find an exact match for something.
All in all, the SCSW is certainly worth the $30 or so is costs on Amazon.com.
The SCSW is a great source of information on all things Smith & Wesson. After using GunBroker, the SCSW as well as the Blue Book can be used to adjust for condition or to get a relative price comparison when you can't find an exact match for something.
All in all, the SCSW is certainly worth the $30 or so is costs on Amazon.com.
rburg
Member
We had a lot of email flying back and forth before the 3rd edition was finished. Mostly the authors were questioning if they should even include pricing. Almost all of us who contributed and made suggestions agreed it was good. And we all knew the drawbacks.
There was even a "pricing panel" made up of many of those who post here who met informally in Tulsa. I'm going to suggest the lubricant included maybe some adult beverages. If you read the text often you'll see comments on the selling price (actual) along with photos. It was done to explain where some of the price estimates came from.
Many of us here attend gun shows. We always joke that you could get rich buying for some of the prices they list and then selling for what the real market was doing at the time.
There are a number of pricing guides. Most are garbage. They can't even figure out what some models are, or worse, lump way too many together. If nothing else the Standard Catalog gets that part right. Between editions 1 and 3 many of us exchanged almost daily email with Jim Supica. It was all friendly. Open the book and look at his credits on the early pages. You'll find a lot of names you see posting here. I can't begin to imagine the number of guns our people have bought and sold.
There is no price clearing house. We don't have price controls. Just because a book says a gun is worth a certain amount doesn't mean it is. Nor can you do much good trying to throw that in the face of either a buyer or seller. If you try that some time, look at the smile that comes across their face. Prices change from show to show. I wish I could have back the deals I passed on from just last year. Most of the work on the 3rd edition took place in 2004-5. Much has changed since then.
Another problem is the availability of some guns. The Standard Catalog, all 3 editions has destroyed the marketplace for our guns. Suddenly everyone with eyes can pick out a model. No secrets these days. The only way to score a great gun is to find a seller who can't read and doesn't have a computer. Even the current economy has had an influence. While some folks have lost their jobs or gone bankrupt, a huge number have realized that banks don't pay interest. Inflation still exists and its as strong as ever, but all that tells us is money in a bank account will be worth less next year. Guns go up in value.
You might as well have your money in something tangible as getting less than 1% interest (that you still pay income tax on.) So many folks buy a great old gun they've always wanted. A huge number have somehow gotten squirreled away in gun safes and safety deposit boxes. The ones you see in photos here don't go up for sale very often. Those are permanently off the market.
A worse/better factor are folks we call purveyors. They're gun resellers. We've got a guy here named Lee. He goes out and about, trying to skin his suppliers to keep a few ratty old guns on hand. Then those of us who see him at the shows damage his merchandise by drooling all over them. He keeps them under glass to protect them. David Carroll will be in Louisville, KY in a couple of weeks. He usually has 5 tables full of collectibles priced at multiples of the listed "value." Funny thing, our "most knowlegable collectors" here willingly pay the price. Many of us think we're getting a bargain. Try to find a better gun for less money.
My suggestion to the OP here is go back and read the entire book. Pay particular attention to the preface on how the material was developed. They don't claim to have all the information. What they did was attempt to reduce to writing all the notes and comments they had from years of going to gun shows and gun shops. Just like this forum, anyone was free to submit information. It was subject to "peer review". A pretty scary process given the wide experiences of those reading and commenting.
There was even a "pricing panel" made up of many of those who post here who met informally in Tulsa. I'm going to suggest the lubricant included maybe some adult beverages. If you read the text often you'll see comments on the selling price (actual) along with photos. It was done to explain where some of the price estimates came from.
Many of us here attend gun shows. We always joke that you could get rich buying for some of the prices they list and then selling for what the real market was doing at the time.
There are a number of pricing guides. Most are garbage. They can't even figure out what some models are, or worse, lump way too many together. If nothing else the Standard Catalog gets that part right. Between editions 1 and 3 many of us exchanged almost daily email with Jim Supica. It was all friendly. Open the book and look at his credits on the early pages. You'll find a lot of names you see posting here. I can't begin to imagine the number of guns our people have bought and sold.
There is no price clearing house. We don't have price controls. Just because a book says a gun is worth a certain amount doesn't mean it is. Nor can you do much good trying to throw that in the face of either a buyer or seller. If you try that some time, look at the smile that comes across their face. Prices change from show to show. I wish I could have back the deals I passed on from just last year. Most of the work on the 3rd edition took place in 2004-5. Much has changed since then.
Another problem is the availability of some guns. The Standard Catalog, all 3 editions has destroyed the marketplace for our guns. Suddenly everyone with eyes can pick out a model. No secrets these days. The only way to score a great gun is to find a seller who can't read and doesn't have a computer. Even the current economy has had an influence. While some folks have lost their jobs or gone bankrupt, a huge number have realized that banks don't pay interest. Inflation still exists and its as strong as ever, but all that tells us is money in a bank account will be worth less next year. Guns go up in value.
You might as well have your money in something tangible as getting less than 1% interest (that you still pay income tax on.) So many folks buy a great old gun they've always wanted. A huge number have somehow gotten squirreled away in gun safes and safety deposit boxes. The ones you see in photos here don't go up for sale very often. Those are permanently off the market.
A worse/better factor are folks we call purveyors. They're gun resellers. We've got a guy here named Lee. He goes out and about, trying to skin his suppliers to keep a few ratty old guns on hand. Then those of us who see him at the shows damage his merchandise by drooling all over them. He keeps them under glass to protect them. David Carroll will be in Louisville, KY in a couple of weeks. He usually has 5 tables full of collectibles priced at multiples of the listed "value." Funny thing, our "most knowlegable collectors" here willingly pay the price. Many of us think we're getting a bargain. Try to find a better gun for less money.
My suggestion to the OP here is go back and read the entire book. Pay particular attention to the preface on how the material was developed. They don't claim to have all the information. What they did was attempt to reduce to writing all the notes and comments they had from years of going to gun shows and gun shops. Just like this forum, anyone was free to submit information. It was subject to "peer review". A pretty scary process given the wide experiences of those reading and commenting.
dnonac
Member
Texas.......is not only a place, it's a frame of mind. Come visit sometime.
In London a few years ago on business, a group of us were asked where we were from. Nearly everyone replied "the United States". But, there were 2 of us there that replied "Texas". Everyone from Europe immediately knew exactly where it was. God Bless Texas!
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a price guide...any price guide is just that....a guide and no more...prices are established by many factors with the final selling prices determined by the buyer and seller...
Excellent comments
Excellent comments by all. Some say SCSW and Standard Catalog of Firearms for buying, and the blue book for selling.
Geographical location enters into the equation. Cruising your local gun shows and talking with the people behind the tables will provide you with a lot of information. I suppose the internet minimizes some of the differences in locals, but then you have the expense of shipping and the other FFL's that sometime need to get involved in a transaction.
Excellent comments by all. Some say SCSW and Standard Catalog of Firearms for buying, and the blue book for selling.
Geographical location enters into the equation. Cruising your local gun shows and talking with the people behind the tables will provide you with a lot of information. I suppose the internet minimizes some of the differences in locals, but then you have the expense of shipping and the other FFL's that sometime need to get involved in a transaction.
Must rememer there are still LOTS of folks NOT "on line", so any ofthese 'reference" books and price guides are just that a "guide" ,yes, usually out of date at the time of printing, and very regional, and ANY auction throws a monkey wrench in the whole process as it only take TWO people ,BOTH wanting the SAME thing, to drive up the prices, "exponentially"(sic)
Exactly! How much does the seller want and how much do you want to give 'em!
I guess that's what it boils down to...rags
22-rimfire
Member
I find the pricing in the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson interesting. The information is far more important. I don't rely heavily on the values but look at them in only general terms. I use the Blue Book more for pricing or valuing things but only as a guide. Experience and knowledge of the market is very important as well as being able to pick up on trends. Dealers have to be far more knowledgeable than I would ever be or even seek to become. But I do pay attention to certain favorites.
ab4ka
Member
the SCSW is a great book for info on the guns, but for real world pricing I think Gunbroker is about your best bet. As much as I like the Blue Book it's prices don't seem to be much in line for what stuff goes for.
