Jim Cirillo's Service Revolver, the Model 10.

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dabney

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Sometimes in the late 1980's I read an article by Massad Ayoob on the Military & Police Revolver of S&W. In this magazine article, Mr. Ayoob listed some of the different agencies that issued the Model 10, to include specific individuals who carried the same as part of their day-to-day job (cop). One of these individuals was Jim Cirillo, of whom Massad had a close friendship with. I believe most everyone knows or has heard/read about this "legend" of a man and cop! His exploits on the Stakeout Squad of the NYPD in the late 60's is well known and recorded. In this article there were several photos of different types of Model 10's with different barrel lengths and cops holding/posing with their respective Model 10. In one photo of a well-worn Model 10 with a 4-inch Heavy Barrel, Ayoob identified this as the Cirillo Model 10. This Model 10 had the wood service grip panels with grooves cut into the wood for the fingers to get a good hold/grip. Also in the pic was the S&W Target Hammer and that puzzled me because of the double-action-only philosophy of Cirillo, himself. That Target Hammer feature on his 10 would indicate the possibility of "precise" single-action fire by Officer Cirillo, under the right conditions. I don't know how many people have seen, through a picture, Cirillo's Heavy Barrel Model 10, but it has the Target Hammer and that would not be very user-friendly in double-action-only fire! I read the book, Tales of the Stakeout Squad, several times. There is a picture of Cirillo on the front cover (paperback) holding a Model 10, similar to his own back in his cop days. That 10 does not have a Target Hammer and it is in way to good of condition to be the same one I saw in the old Ayoob article mentioned earlier. I believe Cirillo was just posing with that 10 for the photo. The 10, from his NYPD times was sporting a lot of cop-wear-and-tear and had the tell-tale Target Hammer, well known to Model 10 fans. I don't know if how many forum members may have saw the pic of the original Cirillo Model 10 or may have actually seen it! Whatever the case, what was the story of the Target Hammer on his sixgun? He (Cirillo) may have had the need to deviate from his DAO style, right moment, right time, and right situation for a single "precise" shot! My take on the modification (Target Hammer) of his 10. Please correct me if you know me to be in error here on this great gunfighter legend, Jim Cirillo!
David
 
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Grip tape

Was it Cirrillo who wrote that he wrapped his grips with electrician's tape -- the high grade stuff that doesn't leave your hands black -- to fit them to his hand? That was an early days PPC method.

As I recall the story, he imagined unknowing onlookers as thinking something like, "Look at the dumb cop who wrapped his broken grips with tape."
 
Jim Cirillo said:
I carried four handguns: two Model 10 revolvers, a Colt Cobra, and a PPK.
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Jim Cirillo said:
I bought the regular model and then the bull barrel when they came out with that modification. I think my bull barrel only cost $40.
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Jim Cirillo said:
Both were excellent shooters. With either one I could put a bullet in your right nostril or your left nostril, they were that accurate. The old one had dinnky sights, like a little slot. The bull barrel had better sights, plus I altered them. One of the fellas was an amateur gunsmith, and he actually filed a slot in the back of the rear sight and he put a blade at an angle so that was always shadowed, and made a nice, big, square notch in it- ah that worked beautiful. On the front sight I had a ramp cut flat so that I would have a better silhouetted sight picture. I did the gunsmithing on the action- it was smooth as silk.
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Massad Ayoob on recollections of Jim Cirillo said:
Jim was among the first to wrap his grips with friction tape to prevent hand slippage. It became a trend among PPC shooters. His duty guns, except for the backup in his pocket, were wrapped the exact same way, always including a homemade grip adapter with an exaggerated flange between the middle finger and the ring finger. (On the street in uniform, smart-asses would say, "Hey, Mr. Po-leece, your gun handle busted or sumpin'?" And Jim would reply with a wolfish grin, "Yeah, that's it. Probably won't work, huh?"
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All quotes taking from Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad by Paul Kirchner
 
Jim Cirillo

I knew Jim from FLETC (Federal Law Enforcement Training Center).....he was a very competent instructor and a no non sense man who had "seen the elephant" several times.....he is also a good example of a good man with a basic no frills revolver / ammo combo who relied on marksmanship and skill sets rather than trying to replace those critical assets with some kind of fancy hardware.....we are fortunate to have/had fellows such as him in our midst. He is missed.
 
I got to know Jim when I was a young copper shooting with the LAPD Pistol Team. Great guy; we corresponded a lot, mostly discussing PPC shooting techniques. Jim was an adherent of DA shooting across the course, including the 50 yd phase.
I also was pretty good buddies with one of his partners, Bill Allard, who I shot with on the All-National Guard Service Pistol Team. Bill was an incredible bullseye shooter (and LOVED to eat) who won the Civilian Bullseye Championship at Camp Perry. He used his NM Colt hardball 1911A1 at Perry, which was also his primary in more than one shooting, until Management told him to use the approved weaponry. Funny guy, great marksman and a credit to the NYPD.
Bob
 
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hammer spurs

Hammer spurs have never been an issue with me, as I have always removed them from every duty and carry revolver I own. Triggers on DA revolvers I always want them narrow , rounded and smooth. Give me a die grinder, round file and some sand cloth and I will make them that way.
 
Collects, an S&W Target Hammer is designed for thumb-cocking "precise" single-action fire. A man, like Mr. Cirillo, would NEVER have a Target Hammer on his 10 for "no-reason" sir. The Target Hammer is "NOT" ideal hardware for double-action-only shooting sir! Whats the point of having a Target Hammer if you are strictly a DAO shooter? Mr. Cirillo had a reason for that Target Hammer as the Model 10 (then in 1959) did not come from the factory with that feature. All of the printed material I've read on his combat use of the Model10, he shot in DAO-only. For some "unknown" reason he installed that Target Hammer and he "had-a-reason" for doing so. Also, I'm not a talented a shooter as you are sir and I still get tighter group with "single-action" fire. I've never been able to get the close groups in double-action as in single-action. You stated in your post "anyone" with enough practice in double-action shooting can match single-action shooting! Not for me! You need to re-think your position on that because the whole concept of the older single-action only Model 14 was for "precision" close groups in shooting contests. Target Hammer and all! Sure, you can shoot double-action with a Target Hammer on, but "why" go to the expense and trouble of installing a wonderfully designed S&W Target Hammer if you do NOT intend to use it and "now" apply that sir, to Mr. Cirillo and the point I made on his target Hammer!
David
 
dabney said:
Collects, an S&W Target Hammer is designed for thumb-cocking "precise" single-action fire. A man, like Mr. Cirillo, would NEVER have a Target Hammer on his 10 for "no-reason" sir. The Target Hammer is "NOT" ideal hardware for double-action-only shooting sir! Whats the point of having a Target Hammer if you are strictly a DAO shooter? Mr. Cirillo had a reason for that Target Hammer as the Model 10 (then in 1959) did not come from the factory with that feature. All of the printed material I've read on his combat use of the Model10, he shot in DAO-only. For some "unknown" reason he installed that Target Hammer and he "had-a-reason" for doing so. Also, I'm not a talented a shooter as you are sir and I still get tighter group with "single-action" fire. I've never been able to get the close groups in double-action as in single-action. You stated in your post "anyone" with enough practice in double-action shooting can match single-action shooting! Not for me! You need to re-think your position on that because the whole concept of the older single-action only Model 14 was for "precision" close groups in shooting contests. Target Hammer and all! Sure, you can shoot double-action with a Target Hammer on, but "why" go to the expense and trouble of installing a wonderfully designed S&W Target Hammer if you do NOT intend to use it and "now" apply that sir, to Mr. Cirillo and the point I made on his target Hammer!
David
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Kinda takin that a little personal? I didn't pick up on any hostility on the part of collects, but maybe I'm missing something.

I agree that for all practical purposes, most people can learn to shoot as well double action as single action. Maybe he put a TH on his model 10 for a reason, or maybe he bought it used and it was on it when he got it, nobody knows. I do know that somebody who plans to use a double action revolver in single action mode is generally going to be slower than somebody shooting it double action. The difference in "group size" is not a significant issue when dealing with targets other than those made of paper that don't shoot back, while the time that it takes to cock a hammer can be the deciding factor in the outcome of a force on force encounter.
 
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My K22 CM which for all intents and purposes has the same grip/frame geometry as a model 10 has a target hammer (not sure if orig. or not) and I shoot almost exclusively double action. The target hammer has never been an issue in DA shooting in any way and I use a high grip hold.

A target hammer has a slightly lower profile, and might be a little less likely to snag on something, and it's more blunt and certainly less "pointy", sharp or whatever and less likely to jab a hole in you if you happen to hit it with your hand etc. while it's in the holster, which you might do while running or engaged in some other vigorous activity.
 
Collects, I used way too many sirs in my last post. Please be so kind as to look over an old lawmans weakness, and that weakness being a "hair-trigger" problem. Your post resonates with thoughful discourse and my "verbage" should have been constructed and engineered better! A target hammer, for the most part, is for single action fire. My point with Jim Cirillo, was over a pic, first seen 20+years ago. I have a very unclear copy of the magazine pic showing the Cirillo Model 10, target hammer very clear though. I, for over two decades, puzzled over that feature and never heard or read anything about it whatsoever. I think it is a "given" that the very pro-active, ahead of the curve man, like Jim Cirillo, had a purpose other than it made his 10 look cool. It also is a "given" that Mr. Cirillo was so talented and skilled, in several directions, that he had scant few peers walking around on this planet. Thanks for your input Collects, as I re-thought my position!
David

P.S. I would very much like to know about Cirillo's Target Hammer and did he in fact have a "specific" mission for it.
 
dabney said:
Collects, an S&W Target Hammer is designed for thumb-cocking "precise" single-action fire. A man, like Mr. Cirillo, would NEVER have a Target Hammer on his 10 for "no-reason" sir. The Target Hammer is "NOT" ideal hardware for double-action-only shooting sir! Whats the point of having a Target Hammer if you are strictly a DAO shooter? Mr. Cirillo had a reason for that Target Hammer as the Model 10 (then in 1959) did not come from the factory with that feature. All of the printed material I've read on his combat use of the Model10, he shot in DAO-only. For some "unknown" reason he installed that Target Hammer and he "had-a-reason" for doing so. Also, I'm not a talented a shooter as you are sir and I still get tighter group with "single-action" fire. I've never been able to get the close groups in double-action as in single-action. You stated in your post "anyone" with enough practice in double-action shooting can match single-action shooting! Not for me! You need to re-think your position on that because the whole concept of the older single-action only Model 14 was for "precision" close groups in shooting contests. Target Hammer and all! Sure, you can shoot double-action with a Target Hammer on, but "why" go to the expense and trouble of installing a wonderfully designed S&W Target Hammer if you do NOT intend to use it and "now" apply that sir, to Mr. Cirillo and the point I made on his target Hammer!
David
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Just a thought...maybe we're reading too much into this. For whatever reason Jim had a target hammer installed on his M10. It was probably done at the NYPD Firearms Unit at Rodman's Neck. It might have been as simple as Jim wanting another hammer when he tuned his revolver and all that they had laying around was a target hammer. Jim probably didn't care. That happened to me when I went into the LAPD Armory and had another hammer installed on my M67. I got a narrow M64 hammer, instead of the usual semi-target M67 hammer. To a great shooter stuff like this is inconsequential. Something else to remember...DA shooting has evolved over the years. In 1959 SA fire was used by "most" revolver shooters. Bullseye was still king; PPC and DAO hadn't reached the popularity it had from the '60's through the 90's. Like all other revolver shooters, Jim most probably evolved as a marksman. As he got better, he never changed the hammer; it wasn't important. LAPD-issued revolvers in the '50's and '60's were normally shipped with target hammers and narrow triggers, per dept requirements. Just my thoughts.
Bob
 
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loc n load said:
.... Triggers on DA revolvers I always want them narrow , rounded and smooth. Give me a die grinder, round file and some sand cloth and I will make them that way.
Click to expand...

Me too. I think the target/service hammer thing is inconsequential -- I like them bobbed but it makes no difference (to me) in shooting, just less likely to hang up on clothing in concealed-carry mode.
The Cirillo quote mentions buying a bull-barrel (HB model 10 I assume) when they came out-- perhaps those came with the target hammer and he just never saw a need to change it. I read one of Cirillo's books and can't recall for sure, but maybe the stakeout squad guys weren't too concerned about concealing their carry guns - in which case a TH would be just fine. I seem to remember photo's of guys in plain clothes but wearing duty belt rigs.
 
I also seem to recall that Jim Cirillos idea of reloading a revolver was to fire a gun until it was empty and then open the gun hand to grab another loaded gun. Gravity, being what it was, would allow the empty, and now useless gun, to fall out of the way.

Having seen my share of Model 10's that hit the ground, they have an uncanny ability to land on the hammer spur, breaking it off or, bending it down and rendering the gun useless. Could the heavier hammer be a little more durable? Did he have so many hammers replaced, they just fitted whatever was in the parts bin at the time? That would also be wierd as I doubt the armorers at NYPD would have ANY target hammers in stock.

Who knows. I always wondered about the dropping an empty gun tale though.
 
Sgt 127 said:
I also seem to recall that Jim Cirillos idea of reloading a revolver was to fire a gun until it was empty and then open the gun hand to grab another loaded gun. Gravity, being what it was, would allow the empty, and now useless gun, to fall out of the way.

Having seen my share of Model 10's that hit the ground, they have an uncanny ability to land on the hammer spur, breaking it off or, bending it down and rendering the gun useless. Could the heavier hammer be a little more durable? Did he have so many hammers replaced, they just fitted whatever was in the parts bin at the time? That would also be wierd as I doubt the armorers at NYPD would have ANY target hammers in stock.

Who knows. I always wondered about the dropping an empty gun tale though.
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You'd be surprised by what parts are in an armory of almost 40,000 cops. Something to remember is that in those days, pistol team and personal revolvers were usually worked on by dept armorers (for free). Also, I'm willing to bet that any confiscated S&W or Colt (or any other gun that was "needed") would have ended up at Rodman's Neck for parts, or testing. My dept had literally drawers full of parts for Colts, S&Ws, 1911s, BHPs, etc.
Bob
 
Many new coppers really have no clue,.. through n fault of their own, of a departmental armorer or what they do or did. When we qualified we had to have our weapons inspected and repaired if nessasary by them and it was a free deal. They would clean them, repair them and give you excellent advise on their care. Dang I miss the good ole day's.
 
NYPD guns were supposed to remain totally spec and any modifications needed to be approved. We were limited to what type of grips we could put on the gun. In Cerillo's day, while those rules were still in effect, they obviously ignored them since Cerillo's squad used homemade hollow points, M1 carbines, BAR's, and anything else they wanted. Cerillo was also the inventor of the term NY Reload, meaning carrying two guns and dropping the one empty to draw the second, so I can see how the dropping of a revolver could screw up the hammer, and I would imagine a Target hammer might be a bit stronger.

Funny how at the end of his life, Cerillo carried a Glock, though.
 
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