Recreating box labels

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MN2944

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I've got a couple of older revolvers that are missing boxes. I noticed that eBay has reproduction labels for vintage S&W boxes as well as a number of auctions for various boxes. What's your opinion on these labels? Do they look close enough to the real thing for display purposes? I am NOT talking about reconstructing a box and trying to pass it off to a buyer as original.
 
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Florida J Frame said:
Maybe it's just me but I've never been able to understand the purpose of these reproduction labels. Either you have the original or you don't. Why would you want to display a phoney? I just don't get it.
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I guess for the same reason people display reproduction works of art. For that matter, why do we care about boxes at all?
 
Kinda like stocks, they are original with the gun; or not. I try to get a correct box for all my Smiths. It doesn't matter to me that they aren't original to the gun and I wouldn't represent them any other way.
 
For display purposes, I don't think its a big deal. I've been condemplating this myself... I have a couple 100% guns with no box but always looking for period correct boxes for them. With no intent of ever selling these revolvers I wouldn't mind corresponding labels for them.
 
There must be a good demand for the boxes and paperwork. The prices those items fetch on eBay is incredible. I saw a box and PPW for a 28-2 sell about a week ago for a little over $70. Manuals are going up in price quickly for premium models.
 
I try to find correct boxes and accessories for the guns I have without them, but I've never been interested in affixing bogus labels to the boxes. I just don't see a point in taking it that far.
 
Well I went and did something similar. I liked M1s and wanted some M2 ammo boxes after seeing some at Brimfield Mass flea market awhile back. So I die cut goods for a living and I can make those no problem I thought. Most of the modern graphic art programs dont have the correct fonts used from years ago. The fonts are close but the wont look right to most people. You will have to create the file from scratch and that takes time. Then you have to find the correct label stock and if has to be gum stock it must be able to run thur a digital printer. I had dies made to cut the boxes and had to meet the minium for printing and buying stock. So to make a few boxes that the US government payed pennies for your looking at dollar's. Same thing to make correct labels for the pistol boxes. It can be done but how many are going to be sold and dont forget about that COPYRIGHT thing.
Brian
 

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MN2944 said:
I've got a couple of older revolvers that are missing boxes. I noticed that eBay has reproduction labels for vintage S&W boxes as well as a number of auctions for various boxes. What's your opinion on these labels? Do they look close enough to the real thing for display purposes? I am NOT talking about reconstructing a box and trying to pass it off to a buyer as original.
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Reproduction boxes and labels are okay if they are marked as such. Just a little "Reproduced by Bob's Mfg." in one corner or something like that.

However labels that are unmarked as reproductions invite fakery - go to the Colt Forum and you'll see an appreciable number of threads dedicated to complaining about a maker from Tennessee of fake Colt boxes, labels, hang tags, instruction manuals, etc. He words his ads for these fakes to imply that they are the real thing, but never quite says one way or the other. Consequently they sell for far more than an honest reproduction would.

In addition to honest buyers wanting a box "for display", these repros are being used by the unscrupulous to put together fake New In Box packages (usually Python) that go for thousands over what they should. I'd hate to see that happen with S&Ws.

And even though you are not trying to pass something off as the real thing, what about the next person who owns your gun? Whether sold or inherited, it may not be clear to the new owner that the box is a reproduction and so they may (unknowingly) misrepresent it as "Grandpa's gun in the original box!"

I agree with others that if it's not the box that the gun came in, then what's the point? Why put one out "for display purposes" when you are displaying a fake?
 
Tom K said:
And even though you are not trying to pass something off as the real thing, what about the next person who owns your gun? Whether sold or inherited, it may not be clear to the new owner that the box is a reproduction and so they may (unknowingly) misrepresent it as "Grandpa's gun in the original box!"
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That's an excellent point. I think I'll scrap the idea.
 
recreating box labels

I believe there is nothing wrong in storing the guns in boxes with labels and one sided wax paper as long as they are disclosed as non original when sold. I use them for consolidation in my safe. I use the boxes for tip-ups, top breaks and HE stored in caliber as well as SA and DA with the labels denoting the info such as caliber, serial #, grips, finish, barrel length, etc. for info purposes when retreiving them from the safe. Would love to have a much larger safe but my better half put a halt to the last safe I purchased. So, I have to consolidate the best way I can and the boxes come in handy to stack on top of each other to save space. So, go ahead and use the boxes for information only,

Nick
 
Boxes, labels, tools, and accompanying paperwork is an invitation for dishonest entrepreneurs to fleece the unwary collector, who in turn, without malice, passes his forgery on to others. Before long, nobody can tell the legitimate "set" from the phony. I've forced myself to maintain a complete disinterest in "all the trappings" that sometimes accompany guns on the market.
 
another reason to ones homework when ever looking at , or considering buying ANYTHING, YES "caveat emptor" and the nice thing when a TRUE collector can tell, see, and hopefully PASS ON this info to new folks learning,,,, how does one become "educated', no nothing wrong with labeling YOUR guns 'container' , and as to just what is in any given box, and the factory type label put all this info in a small limited space, if YOU cannot tell a 'fake" label from an actual, as well as the type, style and ink used, you should NOT be spending any LARGE sums of cash on a "pig in a poke"............................
if you do not believe in buying a proper box or packaging for any of your guns , then so be it, then DON'T !!!
as for the "fakes" being sold, if they tick off the company , such as Colt, their attorneys will contact them to protect their licensing / logo and copyright infringements. if there wasn;t money to be made, they would not be doing it and there has been 'copies, replicas" etc made of everything in history, from Egyptian mummies up to "moon dust" from the Apollo missions.....................
 
Having seen many examples of faked boxes being passed off as the real thing (and some are good enough to fool almost anyone), I'm at the point where I don't trust any gun show box of any age as being part of a NIB set. Just like fake NAZI militaria. There is so much of it, and so well done, unless you are a real expert you are probably going to be taken if you buy it.
 
Tom K said:
Reproduction boxes and labels are okay if they are marked as such. And even though you are not trying to pass something off as the real thing, what about the next person who owns your gun? Whether sold or inherited, it may not be clear to the new owner that the box is a reproduction and so they may (unknowingly) misrepresent it as "Grandpa's gun in the original box!"
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I recently learned that the documentation that I have for a particular firearm is forged. The person who forged the documentation sold the firearm to a very reputable, knowledgeable, and honest dealer, who in turn sold it to another person whom I purchased it from. This person, through some very excellent detective work and a bit of luck, determined that the documents were forged. He contacted me two years after I purchased the firearm and was kind enough to offer me a full refund. Turns out that there are other who were sold firearms with forged documents from the same person. So far we know of 5, but this may just be the tip of the iceberg as this person has been doing this for many years.

So I agree 100% with Tom K's posting, mark it as a reproduction or leave it as is.
 
I have been working on collecting some investment revolvers for the future. Got 2 young grand kids now and I've been thinking about when they get old enough to shoot and appreciate guns. This thread has been very interesting and informative. As a regular consumer, this is something that I have never thought about when looking at guns. So thanks for bringing up these issues!
 
acco40 said:
I recently learned that the documentation that I have for a particular firearm is forged. The person who forged the documentation sold the firearm to a very reputable, knowledgeable, and honest dealer, who in turn sold it to another person whom I purchased it from. This person, through some very excellent detective work and a bit of luck, determined that the documents were forged. He contacted me two years after I purchased the firearm and was kind enough to offer me a full refund. Turns out that there are other who were sold firearms with forged documents from the same person. So far we know of 5, but this may just be the tip of the iceberg as this person has been doing this for many years.

So I agree 100% with Tom K's posting, mark it as a reproduction or leave it as is.
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What kind of forged documents are you talking about, boxes, papers...?
 
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