Why so hard to find simple list of serial numbers?

Trying to find manufacture dates for my SW revolvers.

Have a SW Chiefs Special model 36 with #269171.

Have a SW model 37 Airweight with #329630.

Can't find manufacture dates.

Found plenty of chatter and nonsense, but why don't we have a simple list of "model, serial number, date of manufacture" list available? Did I miss it somewhere amongst the chaff?

Look at the second post in this thread:

How to Identify/Date a S&W

When I don't have a S&W Catalog handy it's what I use. One reason this info isn't everywhere is it's probably covered by copyright by the Catalog.

I found them quite easily doing an internet search. In fact I am surprised how many op don't search the internet before asking here.
For models 36, 37, 38, 49, 50 and pre model number versions.

1950 = start at 1
1952 = 7369 - 21342
1953 = 28916
1955 = 55050 - 75000
1957 = 117770 - 125000
1962 = starts at 295000
1969 = ends at 786544

J serial Prefix serial numbers.
For models 36, 37, 38, 49, 50.

1969-1970 = J1 - J99999
1971-1972 = 1J1 - 999J99
1973-1974 = J100000 - J250000
1975-1976 = J250001 - J370000
1976-1977 = J370001 - J610000
1977-1978 = J610001 - J670000
1979-1980 = J670001 - J760000
1981 = J760001 - J915400
1982 = J915401 - 1J18600
1983 = 1J18601 - 1JXXXX

1955 - 4 screw side plate ends
1957 - stamping of model number at 125000
1966 - flat latch ends
1968 - diamond grips end
1975 - heavy barrel standard
1982 - end pinned barrel

C Series K Frames: (Fixed Sight Models)

C1 - C233,999………….....1948 – 52
C236,004 – C261,483…….1953
C277,555 – C314,031….…1954 – 56
C402,924 – C405,018…….1957
C405,019 – C429,740…..1958 – 59
C429,741 – C474,148…….1960
C474,149 – C622,699…….1961 – 62
C622,700 – C810,532…….1963 – 65
C810,533 – C999,999…..1966 – 67

D Series K Frames: (Fixed Sight Models)

D1 – D90,000…………….....1968
D90,001 – D330,000……..1969 -70
D330,001 – D420,000………1971 – Early 72
D420,001 – D510,000………Late 1972 – Early 73
D510,001 – D659,901………Late 1973 – Early 1974
D659.902 – D75000………..Late 1974 – Early 1975
D750,001 – D870,000………Late 1975 – Early 1976
D870,001 – D999,999………Late 1976 – Early 1977
2D00001 - 2D80,000……….1977
2D80,001 – 2D99,999………1978
4D00001 – 6D10,000……….1979
6D10,0001 – 7D10,000……1980
7D10,001 – 9D44,500…..1981
9D44,501 – 17D8,900………1982
17D8,901 – 21D0883……….1983

This is just a sample I found with a simple internet search. There is more out there on the K and N frame. Hope this helps.

Peterdeb's post is just a start. The reason you can't find a simple list of serial numbers is that the list of serial numbers is not simple. It is 4+ pages in SCSW, 2nd edition, by Supica and Nahas. Probably slightly larger in the current 4th edition.

Serial Number Lists

Hello Kris, allow me to suggest another location for finding the Serial Numbers. If you are not already in possession of the Standard Catalog of S&W, Fourth Edition you might consider purchasing one. Written by Jim Supica & Richard Nahas who are both S&W CA Members. The fact is that S&W Pistols & Revolvers use shipping dates as their beginning not manufacturing dates.
As a bonus you will find other valuable information concerning most things S&W and The Book is considered our Bible.

Kris Whiteleather said:

Trying to find manufacture dates for my SW revolvers.

Have a SW Chiefs Special model 36 with #269171.

Have a SW model 37 Airweight with #329630.

Can't find manufacture dates.

Found plenty of chatter and nonsense, but why don't we have a simple list of "model, serial number, date of manufacture" list available? Did I miss it somewhere amongst the chaff?

Click to expand...

Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th Edition. Available now via your favorite online book provider . . .

Hi there,

Why are northeastshooters and standard catalogue lists not the same?

For an exeample a 28-2 N170XXX is one time made in 1974, and from the other list 1974 doesn’t sart before s/n N200’000…

Why would the list on the independent site be different from the S&W official lists?

Thanks

City Hunter

The answer to your question is actually quite simple. All lists, including those in the Standard Catalog, are estimates. They are not completely accurate for one very important reason: S&W neither assembled nor shipped their handguns in serial number order. The only way to be certain of a particular handgun's "birth date" (always the ship date) is to have Dr. Jinks do a records search. Anything else is a guess; perhaps an educated guess, but a guess nevertheless.

BTW, I noted a significant error in the list that peterdeb posted. The last line in the J prefix list is 1983 = 1J18601 - 1JXXXX. That is incorrect. It should say, 1JXXXXX. The 1983 numbers always had six numeric digits. That's how you tell them apart from the "roving" J numbers of the early 1970s. The SCSW is also misleading on this point.

As you can see above, different models of S&W's had different ranges of S/N's. You need to be able to identify which gun you need info on, and then look into that Model for the range of #'s. Yes, obtaining the 4th edition of the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson will give you most of all the answers.

I don't think there is an actual date of manufacture by serial number. Remember you have assemblers putting together revolvers everyday and they are handed racks of frames. They may start the rack on Monday and finish on Friday and i'm sure no one kept records on which gun was assembled on which day. Roy will tell you he can't tell the date a gun was manufactured he can only find when a gun was shipped. A gun can sit on the shelf for months or even years before it was shipped. The numbers in the standard Catalog are educated guesses. Is kinda like the Vin numbers on your car It can give you the month,day and year the vin tag was put on the car. Probably not the actual day It was finished.
SWCA 892

S&Ws records of manufacture in the 50s and 60s only list the number of a particular model completed on a specific date. Fore example, the number of NT-430 revolvers (44 Magnums) or KT-357 revolvers (.357 Combat Magnums) made on a particular day. There is no reference to serial number, finish, barrel length, etc. Also, for the 44 Magnum, for which I am most familiar, the serial numbers of the first year of production vary widely (S130705 to S167125). Many guns with low serial numbers (S153000 range, etc.) shipped in late 1956 and into 1957. That is why shipping date is used to "date" a Smith & Wesson firearm and no valid comprehensive lists exist.

Bill

JP@AK said:

City Hunter

The answer to your question is actually quite simple. All lists, including those in the Standard Catalog, are estimates. They are not completely accurate for one very important reason: S&W neither assembled nor shipped their handguns in serial number order. The only way to be certain of a particular handgun's "birth date" (always the ship date) is to have Dr. Jinks do a records search. Anything else is a guess; perhaps an educated guess, but a guess nevertheless.

Click to expand...

An example to show what JP@AK is trying to explain from my records:

Model 41 serial number A486852 was shipped in June 1976. Number A486834, only eighteen digits lower, shipped 23 months later in May 1978.

The only record S&W kept was the invoice date when the gun was sold. A completed boxed item ready for sale would be placed in storage until a order came in. If it got pushed to the bottom of the pile, it could sit for months or even years, while newer guns were pulled from the top of the pile for shipment until it was needed to fill an order.

Any list by serial number is, at best, an educated guess of the most likely date. The only way to be certain of an exact date is to request a historical letter

Thank you for your answers.
I am a bit surprised that a firm like Smith & Wesson did not keep a register that allows an easy and readable dating of its production. As a result, collectors, including myself, are currently embarrassed if they have to communicate accurately the date of production of a weapon.
Until the beginning of the 90's, Colt's serial numbers are for the most part very well defined...
Regards,

City Hunter said:

Thank you for your answers.
I am a bit surprised that a firm like Smith & Wesson did not keep a register that allows an easy and readable dating of its production. As a result, collectors, including myself, are currently embarrassed if they have to communicate accurately the date of production of a weapon.
Until the beginning of the 90's, Colt's serial numbers are for the most part very well defined...
Regards,

Click to expand...

Not surprising to me. They were not catering to collectors and had no thoughts of what may occur in the future. What records exist are mostly by luck, not design.
It is common in many industries. Take for example Harley-Davidson, anything previous to 1970 or so is spotty to determine and pre 1957 is nearly impossible as to dates, colors, equipment packages, etc. It just wasn't important to them to retain old records. Some dealers kept copies of their orders, but the factory did not.

Bastogne71 said:

The only record S&W kept was the invoice date when the gun was sold. A completed boxed item ready for sale would be placed in storage until a order came in. If it got pushed to the bottom of the pile, it could sit for months or even years, while newer guns were pulled from the top of the pile for shipment until it was needed to fill an order.

Any list by serial number is, at best, an educated guess of the most likely date. The only way to be certain of an exact date is to request a historical letter

Click to expand...

That's a great description of an odd inventory practice. I can see building a particularly configured gun that wasn't custom ordered (say, a 4" M19 without target trigger but with a target hammer, no outline rear sight but with the red ramp front), and it sitting in a box on a factory shelf for an extended time until that configuration got ordered, because others were more popular. One simple thing could have made life easier for all concerned, both at the factory and for purchasers (at least the original owner); that would be a card or slip of paper placed in the box with the gun that had the finish date for its manufacture, like a small price tag tied to the hammer spur or trigger. The tag could have been placed by whatever S&W had as a final inspector when the gun came off the line.

Since some guns sat on a shelf for months (and maybe years??) before they were actually sold/shipped, it seems a more fitting date to go by, sort of like a bottle of fine wine.

City Hunter said:

Thank you for your answers.
I am a bit surprised that a firm like Smith & Wesson did not keep a register that allows an easy and readable dating of its production. As a result, collectors, including myself, are currently embarrassed if they have to communicate accurately the date of production of a weapon.
Until the beginning of the 90's, Colt's serial numbers are for the most part very well defined...
Regards,

Click to expand...

[ame]https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Catalog-Smith-Wesson/dp/1440245630/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=[/ame]

There ya go!

Bastogne71 said:

An example to show what JP@AK is trying to explain from my records:

Model 41 serial number A486852 was shipped in June 1976. Number A486834, only eighteen digits lower, shipped 23 months later in May 1978.

The only record S&W kept was the invoice date when the gun was sold. A completed boxed item ready for sale would be placed in storage until a order came in. If it got pushed to the bottom of the pile, it could sit for months or even years, while newer guns were pulled from the top of the pile for shipment until it was needed to fill an order.

Any list by serial number is, at best, an educated guess of the most likely date. The only way to be certain of an exact date is to request a historical letter

Click to expand...

IIRC, the production floor manager (not sure of the exact title) kept daily records. I believe member Ed Cornett has some of these records.

Hair Trigger said:

.... One simple thing could have made life easier for all concerned, both at the factory and for purchasers (at least the original owner); that would be a card or slip of paper placed in the box with the gun that had the finish date for its manufacture, ......

Click to expand...

The "all concerned" is the sticking point. In the overall scheme of things, that's almost nobody.

We tend to lose sight of the fact that we who are nerdy enough to care about such a thing are a minuscule fraction of customers/users/owners.

Go to a hardware store and convince somebody that the date a hammer was manufactured is of any relevance at all; I doubt you'll find any takers

Here is a good example of a very wide discrepancy of when a revolver frame was made versus when a finished gun was shipped. A few years ago, I purchased a 5-screw Model of 1955 with serial number S130822. Looking in the SCSW, it would indicate that this revolver was "made" in, most likely, 1955. Imagine my surprise when Roy told me it was shipped in March of 1959. Following is a discourse of this anomaly with a very good explanation from Roy. Also note the wide discrepancy of other N-frame serial numbers and when they shipped.


From Roy Jinks, S&W Historian, 7/25/2018:
"Charlie, .45 Model of 1955 serial S130822 was shipped in March 1959. Hope that this helps. Roy "


**************************
5/18/2019
I asked Roy Jinks to verify that this gun was shipped in 1959, as it had bothered me ever since he first gave me that date. Here is his response, which explains a lot:

"Charlie, collector put to much importance in serial numbers and forget that these are manufactured products and that serial numbers to Smith & Wesson are only important for the legal requirements of the laws. In the case of the serial numbers in the S130000 range some of these revolver frames were set aside to be build as .44 Magnums as the .45 1955 frame was the only one that could be used to match the new .44 Magnum barrels. However, they were not all used and set aside again and finished at a much later date. I the shipment that your revolver was in in March 1959 there were 5 revolvers and the serial ranges were in S130xxx,S144xxx and the rest in the S165xxx range. It is also interesting to note that serial number S130817 was shipped in March 1958, S130820 shipped in April 1959 and S130823 was shipped in March 1956. You can see that with those few serial numbers we have a five year spread. It is tough for a collector to make rhyme or reason out of this. I can say when the computer control of serial numbers came into effect it got much better. Hope that this helps. Roy"

Case in point …..

I bought a brand new Ruger GP100. Rubber grips, plastic box.

According to their on line records this serial number was made 12 years ago! ( ???). Gun should have shipped with different grips and cardboard box.
I paid Ruger for the letter and they explained that a block of 12 GP100 frames with serial numbers were set aside for a project that never came to be. Once the frames were discovered ….. they assembled the guns and off they went to the distributor.

An oddity but not rare and wont command a premium price.