Model 19-3 Longevity

Star North

Star North

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I have a 19-3 with very good timing. Due to the ammo shortage I want to make this my primary shooter because I have components to reload for it. I am loading 158 grain LRN bullets with 6.4 grains of Unique and a federal magnum match primer (only primers I could get). With my current shooting schedule I will likely put 1600 rounds of this reload through the revolver. I am not knowledgeable about these older firearms, and I wanted to know if my revolver will hold up to this regimen?

Back Story:
I bought this gun as a collectible, when the economy took a dump I had it appraised. The appraiser said it had no collector value because it has no box and no papers. It was only a shooter. Since I am out of 9mm and have plenty of .357 I want to know if I can swap out guns until next spring.

Anticipated Question:
I know I can load lighter, but that seems criminal to shoot wimp rounds through a gun renowned for retro magnum gun fighting. I do not want to disappoint Massad Ayoob. I think 6.4 grains of Unique is a nice compromise middle of the road load.
 
You'll wear out before the gun does . They do have their limitations but on the other hand , they are no weak sister . My std load in 357 using a 158-162 gr cast bullet is 7.0 of Unique in all my 357's , K-L- N frame and my Colt Trooper . I shot a 180 gr cast bullet on top of a max load of H-110 out of my first M19 , for years and years with no evidence of loosening up . We didn't have the " internet experts " back then . They are much more stronger than most will admit . I have personal experience . Shoot it , enjoy it and don't worry about it loosening up . It'll be just fine . Regards Paul
 
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On the other hand, if you load .38 Spl, you grandkids can still be shooting it. I shoot .38 through Model 66s in competition, and the wear on the gun is about equivalent to dry firing.
By the way, you 9mm is "Minor Power", which is equivalent to .38, not .357 Magnum.
Either way, the gun is good for tens of thousands of rounds, given routine care.
 
Star North said:
Back Story:
I bought this gun as a collectible, when the economy took a dump I had it appraised. The appraiser said it had no collector value because it has no box and no papers. It was only a shooter. Since I am out of 9mm and have plenty of .357 I want to know if I can swap out guns until next spring.
Click to expand...

As cowboy4evr said, you'll wear out before the gun does.

I do want to comment on your appraiser's opinion though. Just because you don't have a box/papers does not make a gun "not collectible and only a shooter." I suppose arguments can be made as to what does "collectible" mean but to me condition and rarity of the gun is everything. If the original box/papers are with it, great, but no big deal if they aren't. Some may insist that they want the box/papers too but I think most of us will be happy to collect unusual, rare, or less so but in high condition guns. Enjoy that 1600 rounds.

Jeff
SWCA #1457
 
Without the "box and docs" it's not a full package......but that doesn't mean it's not collectible....... any Model 19 that is Pinned and recessed and is in close to 100% will have ''collector's" value..... they were "police duty guns for the most part and most show wear.... and cops for the most part didn't hang on to the boxes..... or in a lot of cases the original grips.

Question why are you shooting 1600 rounds of .357 with RNL (round nose lead) bullets over the next 8 or 9 months ( 50 rds a week)......your practice load? Light and fast 125gr .357s can accelerate the wear on a K-frame

I'd recommend a +P .39 125gr hollow point for personal defense in urban areas and a 158gr jacketed soft point for rural/woods use.
 
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Star North said:
The appraiser said it had no collector value because it has no box and no papers. It was only a shooter.
Click to expand...

"Just a shooter" . . . Perhaps so, but what a shooter! My 19-3 was the first S&W I owned. Bought in 1973 it has fired thousands of full power rounds and many, many target loads. It is still tight and accurate only having lost a fair amount of blue finish.
Some people (me) feel that a "shooter" is more valuable because it is a real gun that you can actually use!
Scott
 
19-2

I bought my 19-2 in 1963, I shoot nothing but 158 grain reloads, I don't think I ever shot a factory load in it. When I first got it I was 22 years old and hotter and faster was the way to go. I've gotten over that. I used to put 2 or 3 boxes every Saturday. My revolver still looks new, no muzzle wear, no high point wear. It has not been put in a holster since '64. It is cleaned after every outing and is still tight. Stay away from 125s and your grandkids will be shooting it long after your gone. Keep it out of a holster and it will keep a collectible finish. Boxes and papers can be procured.
SWCA 892
 
Star North said:
The appraiser said it had no collector value because it has no box and no papers. It was only a shooter.
Click to expand...
Others have already commented on this, but I want to add my two cents. Well, maybe four cents. :)

The pictures below show a .38 Combat Masterpiece from 1952 (shipped from the factory on October 3, 1952). It was part of a 365 unit special order from the Missouri State Highway Patrol. The "special order" part was the unusual 5" barrel. There is an interesting story about how those 5" barrels were made, but it isn't my point here.

As you can see the gun shows a definite wear pattern. MSHP records indicate this revolver was carried on the job by three different troopers. One of them was able to purchase the gun from the department when he retired. I bought it from his son after the trooper passed away.

When I received the CM, it was in a box from a Model 66. The MSHP replaced the CM as a duty gun with the Model 66, so that seems to be the origin of the box the trooper received the gun in when he bought it from the department. There is a hand written note taped to the box from the department armorer with the trooper's name and division number, bearing testimony to the fact that this is how the gun was transferred to the trooper from the highway patrol. I also possess the FFL transfer document from that sale.

The Model 66 box is clearly not the original yellow box the gun shipped in back in 1952. So, does that make this revolver non-collectible? Hardly. This is a relatively rare piece that shows significant LEO wear and does not have any of its original accouterments with it. But it is still very collectible and is one of the prize units in my extensive collection.
jp-ak-albums-k-frame-target-revolvers-picture11787-mshp-left-2-800x565.jpg

jp-ak-albums-k-frame-target-revolvers-picture11786-mshp-left-1-800x600.jpg


This third picture shows the Model 66 era Magna stocks that came from the department with the gun. After I bought the revolver, I replaced them with the period correct Magna stocks that you see on it.
jp-ak-albums-k-frame-target-revolvers-picture11785-mshp-left-both-stocks-800x447.jpg


In brief, your "appraiser" doesn't know the first thing about collecting S&W firearms. :(
 
Other than field or SD carry, I don’t see a need to shoot magnums. For casual plinking standard .38s will make shooting much more fun and increase the service life for generations.
 
I don't shoot " specials " in magnums , be it a 357 , a 41 , or a 44 . When I pick up a magnum revolver I want it to perform as a magnum . If I'm just punching paper I want it to perform the same as it does for field or other use . The recoil , the time to the next shot is always the same and those things to me are very important . If someone prefers to shoot " specials " in their magnum revolver that is their choice and I respect that . Just for me I have my own criteria . Regards Paul
 
Star North said:
I have a 19-3 with very good timing. Due to the ammo shortage I want to make this my primary shooter because I have components to reload for it. I am loading 158 grain LRN bullets with 6.4 grains of Unique and a federal magnum match primer (only primers I could get). With my current shooting schedule I will likely put 1600 rounds of this reload through the revolver. I am not knowledgeable about these older firearms, and I wanted to know if my revolver will hold up to this regimen?

Anticipated Question:
I know I can load lighter, but that seems criminal to shoot wimp rounds through a gun renowned for retro magnum gun fighting. I do not want to disappoint Massad Ayoob. I think 6.4 grains of Unique is a nice compromise middle of the road load.
Click to expand...

My only concern with those loads would be severe lead fouling. LRN's are soft lead, and the powder load you're using will push those to about 1100 fps. The soft lead will slough off material, not quite "melting" from the velocity, but similar to it. Won't hurt the gun, but will require more stringent bore and cylinder cleaning.

I'd recommend at least using a plated bullet or something hard cast, to decrease the fouling potential. Otherwise, shoot it often, shoot it hard. I've been shooting magnum hand loads from 125 to 158 grain JHP's through my M19-3 for years, it still locks up tightly and functions flawlessly. Recently I've backed off a little on the loads, and do mostly lower-end powder loads with 158's, keeping the velocity in the 1200 fps range. I've got a good N-frame .357 that gets the heavier stuff now.
 
The lack of correct box and papers decreases the collector value, but may not completely destroy the collector value. This is a P&R revolver and if it has no or very little wear on the finish and stocks, then it is still valuable. If it is a worn specimen, like mine, then it is just a shooter grade piece.


As for ammo selection, the full power 110 and 125 grain magnum loads are the most damaging. Reduced power (short barrel 357 magnum) loads and 38 Special or 38 Special +P will impart the least amount of wear and, with proper maintenance, the revolver will outlive you.
 
Thanks!

Thank you everyone for your feed back. My takeaway is that I can shoot those rounds without deleterious effect, other than watching for leading.
 

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