Gunbroker Is Crazy

I bid on a firearm 3 weeks ago and lost. What are the odds it's brother popped up identical condition same seller. I decided to go for it but someone is already$350 more than the one I passed on and the auction still has a day to go. My timing always seems to suck.

Gunbroker

AC Man said:

I bid on a firearm 3 weeks ago and lost. What are the odds it's brother popped up identical condition same seller. I decided to go for it but someone is already$350 more than the one I passed on and the auction still has a day to go. My timing always seems to suck.

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Gunbroker is an outstanding selling tool,,, sometimes works out for the buyer, but usually the seller is the one who comes out on top.. especially if you have something nice or out of the ordinary and in demand.. people are a little crazy right now, and have been more so since all the Covid lock downs and supply chain interruptions..

My experience with Gunbroker has been excellent. In fact, won 2 auctions in the last month.

My experience is that if an item resells, it's because the original buyer reneged on the deal.

Of course, I'm sure that there are some shill bidders out there just to raise the price for the seller.

Look at the seller's feedback. If its good with a lot of entries, it's probably OK.

AC Man said:

I bid on a firearm 3 weeks ago and lost. What are the odds it's brother popped up identical condition same seller. I decided to go for it but someone is already$350 more than the one I passed on and the auction still has a day to go. My timing always seems to suck.

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Weeks ago i won a 3rd Gen with the original box. Another example of the very same model in similar condition but without the box is currently bid at $250 higher than what i paid. The high bidder was late searching/bidding by a couple of weeks. Same goes for whoever is bidding on what you're now watching.

I have 2 guns from GB. A cased ANIB 25-2 in shipper, an s 38/44 1953 Outdoorsman in 98% condition. Both great guns. Beyond that, I buy my guns here on the forum.

Got some more detail on gun in question, unless it a secret . In general I stay away from GB, and GI and similar places

GunBroker is not a "perfect market" for any single sale. No auction single really is because matching the "right" buyer with any given item is a matter of both luck and timing.

My recent experience at the Amoskeag auction is a case in point. The item I wanted most was a 5-screw pre-27 357 Magnum in very good condition with a fine box. The first bid was at my upper limit (top of pre-auction estimate also), and that's where it traded.

Next up was a first year (1926) Colt Camp Perry single shot 22. An odd beast to say the least, but I figured I'd put in a throw away bid because I thought it was cool. Plus fewer than 400 were made before Colt started printing "Camp Perry" on the left side. I won! At the bottom of the pre-auction estimate and below my cap.

In another auction earlier this year there was a wonderfully engraved Ruger New Vaquero. The gun was awesome IMHO. Pimpy? For sure but I wanted it. The bidding ran past my upper limit without me ever putting a bid in. Under the bling - and it was some wicked cool bling - it was still a Ruger Vaquero. I bet that on another day that gun might have sold for barely half what the winning bid was that day.

All that said, GunBroker is a relatively efficient market in the long run looking at averages. Sometimes it seems like 3 drunk guys who just paid down their credit cards are competing with zero knowledge of comparative pricing. Less often you may get a good deal as a buyer - but that requires patience and discipline.

And never forget that all sellers are not created equal. If you see the same item come up over and over at what seems like semi-realistic pricing, analyze the seller's feedback. Chances are high that the seller has significantly, unresolved negative feedback.

Most gun shows I attend have few "collectable" guns I am looking for. With this being said, that limits me to auctions or a few forums (like this).

I have boughts guns off Gunbroker and Guns International recently. Prices can be all over the place as everyone knows.

Prices are rising as we know. Funny thing is I have bid higher than I wanted and lost then lower and won.

Sadly, a common practice by some sellers is removing the valuable factory grips (IE: Cokes or early Magnas) and replace them.

It' buyer beware I guess.

I don't think shilling above reserve price is much of an option these days, what with the steep GB fees. Correct me if I'm wrong...

This gun is a first year 1964 S & W model 57 41 mag in original velour wood presentation case. I should have bought the first one 3 weeks ago at $2100 now the same model and condition is way more. All it takes is one person that has to have it and that sems who I always bid against, LOL I see guns I have bought come up for sale and go for cheap!

GB is rife with shills/underbidders now more than ever. There are a few sellers who relist "sold items" with alarming regularity.

Valmet said:

GB is rife with shills/underbidders now more than ever. There are a few sellers who relist "sold items" with alarming regularity.

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I stumbled upon a seller with a shill bidding on all his items sometime last year. If I'm bidding on an item on GB and someone bids against me, I always look at their feedback and if there's recent purchases, I can look at to hopefully see if they have any particular bidding patterns.
The shill I spotted had 29 purchases from the same seller and the still viewable ended auctions showed all the guns as being relisted with no indication why, but with the seller giving him "A" rating on all the relisted guns (pretty stupid in my estimation). Looking at the active auctions the seller currently had the shill was bidding on every single one.
Since then if I bid on anything on GB anyone that bids against me, I look to see if their bidding or have bid on any of the seller's other auctions.
Also, I emailed GB everything I found but never received a reply; but I check on them on occasion and for whatever reason they aren't doing it currently.

I have bought more guns off GB then I can count. And am happy with the price I paid. Sometimes it took awhile to get one in the condition I wanted for the price was willing to pay. When I look at the bidders history on a rare occasion I see where the seem to deal with the seller alot or exclusively. And so far have managed to make sure they had the last bid. And later check to see what the reviews of either say about the other and never see negative remarks, yet the gun gets put up for auction again. The vast majority of the time things sell within the range they have been selling

EPP said:

I stumbled upon a seller with a shill bidding on all his items sometime last year. If I'm bidding on an item on GB and someone bids against me, I always look at their feedback and if there's recent purchases, I can look at to hopefully see if they have any particular bidding patterns.
The shill I spotted had 29 purchases from the same seller and the still viewable ended auctions showed all the guns as being relisted with no indication why, but with the seller giving him "A" rating on all the relisted guns (pretty stupid in my estimation). Looking at the active auctions the seller currently had the shill was bidding on every single one.
Since then if I bid on anything on GB anyone that bids against me, I look to see if their bidding or have bid on any of the seller's other auctions.
Also, I emailed GB everything I found but never received a reply; but I check on them on occasion and for whatever reason they aren't doing it currently.

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So, did ya' point all of this out to the Gunbroker admins? I'd think they'd be pretty interested in such an obvious violation of the rules....

EPP said:

I stumbled upon a seller with a shill bidding on all his items sometime last year. If I'm bidding on an item on GB and someone bids against me, I always look at their feedback and if there's recent purchases, I can look at to hopefully see if they have any particular bidding patterns.
The shill I spotted had 29 purchases from the same seller and the still viewable ended auctions showed all the guns as being relisted with no indication why, but with the seller giving him "A" rating on all the relisted guns (pretty stupid in my estimation). Looking at the active auctions the seller currently had the shill was bidding on every single one.
Since then if I bid on anything on GB anyone that bids against me, I look to see if their bidding or have bid on any of the seller's other auctions.
Also, I emailed GB everything I found but never received a reply; but I check on them on occasion and for whatever reason they aren't doing it currently.

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So, you pointed all of this out to the Gunbroker admins? I'm surprised they weren't more interested in such an obvious violation of the rules.
Though if the shill bidder went ahead and paid them their fees for the auction, maybe they wouldn't care all that much. They're still making their nut on the closed auctions...

BC38 said:

So, you pointed all of this out to the Gunbroker admins? ..

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Yes. As I said in my post, I emailed GB, everything I found, including the member links to both the shill and the seller.

I just did a search back through my emails, I actually emailed them twice in May 2021, and I did get an automated reply from GB. And looking at the shill's feedback it shows only one purchase/feedback right after my emails, and the seller's feedbacks slowed down a month or so later (the shill had never left a single feedback). The seller, with over 400 total feedbacks, only has single feedback this year back in March and has no current auctions, so maybe GB did act, and just never contacted me back.

I doubt the shill paid anything, but assumed the seller was paying GB their commission, although I don't know exactly how it works if a seller relists an item.

I figured it most likely worked to their advantage or they wouldn't have continued doing it. The 29 auctions that the shill "won" were the times he didn't get out soon enough; there was no way of knowing how many times he successfully drove up the price and then stopped bidding. But the recent feedbacks the seller had received, where you could still view the item and the bid history, the shill had been a bidder on everything viewable.

I think the prices on GB have been going through the roof lately... But there are still some good buys to be had out there.. I agree 100% that there is shill bidding going on as well on GB. No doubt.

I only buy NIB on Gun Broker. Never been dissatisfied. Used is a gamble because you can't see it ahead of time.

First I decide on a model I want. Then I do a search on "completed auctions" to see what the going price is. Then I decide my max bid. If someone outbids me, I'm done.

And of course before I even bid I check the seller's feedback.

EPP said:

Yes. As I said in my post, I emailed GB, everything I found, including the member links to both the shill and the seller.

I just did a search back through my emails, I actually emailed them twice in May 2021, and I did get an automated reply from GB. And looking at the shill's feedback it shows only one purchase/feedback right after my emails, and the seller's feedbacks slowed down a month or so later (the shill had never left a single feedback). The seller, with over 400 total feedbacks, only has single feedback this year back in March and has no current auctions, so maybe GB did act, and just never contacted me back.

I doubt the shill paid anything, but assumed the seller was paying GB their commission, although I don't know exactly how it works if a seller relists an item.

I figured it most likely worked to their advantage or they wouldn't have continued doing it. The 29 auctions that the shill "won" were the times he didn't get out soon enough; there was no way of knowing how many times he successfully drove up the price and then stopped bidding. But the recent feedbacks the seller had received, where you could still view the item and the bid history, the shill had been a bidder on everything viewable.

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Well, FWIW, the seller doesn't get to relist the item without paying the seller fees UNLESS they are reporting the shill buyer as a non-paying bidder. If they report the shill as a non-paying bidder then the shill gets their account locked after just a couple of times being reported for non-payment. Since the suspected shill in this case has completed 29 purchases, it seems unlikely that this is the case.

On the other hand, if the seller is not reporting the shill bidder for non-payment, then the seller is still going to have to pay Gunbroker for the seller's fees and taxes on the "sale" for the auction purchase made by the shill. That can add up to a a significant cost for the seller.

I suppose a high-volume seller who is savvy enough to drive up the price through shill bidding, and still drop out soon enough for other bidders to out-bid them most of the time could increase their profits enough to make the extra proceeds more than offset the fees on the auctions where they didn't stop soon enough and ended up "winning" the auctions. But they'd have to get really good at bailing out at the right time or else the costs associated with the auctions they "win" by shill bidding would be more than the extra money they made by driving up the price on the auctions where they did bail out soon enough.

So I guess it is possible, but it sure seems like a risky way to do business, and it would only work for high-volume sellers who have a really good "feel" for when they have pushed the price up as much as the market will bear.

It would definitely require a seller that is savvy enough at judging the other bidders just right - to make sure they drop out at just the right point the vast majority of the time - to make it work.

It is not GB that is crazy. It is the people bidding on it that are crazy.

OP..........It's called SHILL BIDDING.......And it's crooked.