Model 10 - chambered for .22LR

Tom K · Mar 22, 2009

Here's something a little unusual. I picked this up at a gun show in 2002 for the princely sum of $240. It's a Model 10 (that's all that's stamped on the frame under the crane - MOD 10). Okay, everybody and his dog has a Model 10.

But the holes in the barrel and cylinder look a little small, don't they? That's because it's chambered for .22LR. A closeup of the end of the barrel shows that it's been sleeved, but a very nicely done job. The back end of the barrel shows no seam line at all that I can see.

Here are the hammer and breech face.

There are a few unusual details. (Ignore the stocks - those are some aftermarket ones that I put on. I can't seem to lay my hands on the ones that came on it at the moment.) There's a number 83 on the left side of the frame above the trigger. The backside of the trigger has a nice overtravel stop on it.

On the backstrap are the letters D.P.D. That probably means Denver? Detroit? Police Department.

The barrel (which is turning a bit plum) is still marked .38 S&W Special Ctg., and the front sight ramp is dead smooth - no serrations. There are no numbers on the underside of the barrel or on the cylinder or ejector. There's a small number faintly stamped on the left side of the frame under the grips, just below the mainspring, which is 12009. Just to the right of that is a larger 9, and at the very back lower corner is an S.

I've been wondering if I should letter this gun. Possibly it was done up as a low-cost training gun for some big police department, but by them or by S&W? And if it was a training gun it didn't get much use, as it's in great shape. Any opinions, educated or otherwise?

john traveler · Mar 22, 2009

I doubt that S&W did the conversion, as I see some unsound gunsmithing on your converted revolver. The hammer nose for igniting .22 rimfire should be flat, not pointed. The sleeve job on the barrel is acceptable, and the joint at the breech is probably not visible because it was a tightly fitted cone lapped into place. Common barrel sleeving technique. The front sight looks like it was filed down from the original half-moon, and the barrel exterior shows evidence of buffing. The plum color is almost certainly the sign of a so-so hot bath reblue.

I would speculate that the M10 was originally department issue, sold as surplus, and converted by a gunsmith to .22 LR. He had a K22 cylinder, but no barrel.

S&W would not do such a conversion for several reasons: leaving the .38 SPECIAL CTG marking and the half-a$$ firing pin and recoil shield opens product liability issues, and S&W certainly has the tooling to properly convert the frame and barrel to rimfire.

Other than that, it's an interesting piece.

gaucho1 · Mar 22, 2009

For $240 I think you did great.

I like odd one ofs,and that is pretty darn clean.

I always learn a lot reading Johns posts.
Clear,knowledgable and generous.

Thank You both for posting.

Peter J. · Mar 23, 2009

Very unusual, I really like it. $240 was a steal. How does it "shoot"?

2152hq · Mar 23, 2009

I like it. I'd have bought it for that.

The barrel may have been sleeved using a K22 barrel as a base rather than relined which would account for no joint line at the breech end.

Is that a K22 cylinder on it?

The breech face bushing in the frame looks like it's sitting a little higher than the frame. Perhaps just the pic, but if it is, it may indicate the builder was well aware of a need to maintain proper headspace.

The fireing pin is formed from the original centerfire pin and made to hit the new lower rimfire location. Normally on these types of conversions a new pin is made with the pin itself offset to the bottom to better line up.
I'm guessing the slightly pointed shape was necessary to allow it to enter the offset location of the new bushing.

Not the best of fireingpin shape for a rimfire as already noted. It may pierce cartridge heads if they are soft,,but I'd guess this gun has fired many rounds where there hasn't been a problem with it. I'd gently round the tip if the length allowed.

The purple/plum color of the barrel reblue is common. Low temp of the bath, too short of time in the bath or a depleated salt bath, etc.
If the new sleeved/relined barrel was soft soldered into place,,the builder may have taken a chance and hot blued it.
But to avoid the problems hot salt blueing will do to soft solder joints, they may have done a quick 'in and out',,just enough to get it colored. Later those will turn reddish/plum colored in alot of instances.

A rust blue would take care of that and can match the rest of the gun well. The caliber markings can be changed w/o too much of a problem before a new blue applied. I'd put a new patridge style gold bead front site in it while I was at it

..

Neat Gun!! Congrats..

H Richard · Mar 23, 2009

I would have bought that in a heart beat. A poor man's model 45. What a great fun shooting gun. How is the accuracy?

Jerry in SC · Mar 23, 2009

Regardless of the shortcomings, someone did a fair amount of work to convert it. I think you got a deal.

And, the burning question...how does she shoot?

Tom K · Mar 23, 2009

Originally posted by H Richard:
I would have bought that in a heart beat. A poor man's model 45. What a great fun shooting gun. How is the accuracy?

Ha! A Model 45, eh? I had no idea such a thing existed (p168 of Jink's book). That's one of the great things about this forum, always learning something.

Accuracy is so-so. I could only find one target in my files, fired on 9-3-02, standing, 50ft, CCI Blazer ammo. The group is about 2.6" in size, but is also about 2.5" low and left. That might be why it was sold off. However one target isn't much of a data baseline, and I don't think I tried any other ammo at the time. *sigh* One more thing to add to my list of things to do, when I find some range time.

I hadn't really looked at the gun closely until I was photographing it, and hadn't noticed the funky hammer nose before. It does go bang just fine, so I don't see any need to mess with it. I'll just keep it and use it for what it is, a "great fun shooting gun." Oh, and the DA trigger pull is smooooove. Really nice, makes some of my other S&Ws seem crunchy.

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

2152hq · Mar 23, 2009

Regarding the firing pin tip,,being that the pin must hit at a steeper angle downward in the rimfire conversion than the original centerfire, that existing tip may be fine.

Open the cylinder and hold the cylinder latch back, and then cock the hammer. Keep the latch back & now let the hammer down carefully so the tip protrudes from the breechface.

You'll be able to easily see what the shape of the fireing pin tip is that actually pokes thru the frame.
It may be OK in that it hits at an angle. The 'point' we see in the pic may not be the actual contact, but more the upper rounded portion of the tip.

**** Make sure the hammer is back to it's rebound position (firing pin tip back inside of the frame) before closing the cylinder again.

Different ammo will almost assuredly make a difference in both group size and placement.

You've had her a while...get 'er out to the range again.
Have fun!

SuperMan · Mar 23, 2009

"D.P.D." I was with "Dallas" PD in the 1970s and 80s. Their guns were marked the same way on the backstrap. At the time these were M15s and M64s. You might be able to find out through the Dallas Police Museum if/when they issued M10s so marked.

Bob

Duke426 · Mar 23, 2009

That is pretty cool and I too would have been all over it! Thanks for posting the pictures and info.

perpster · Mar 24, 2009

Originally posted by SuperMan:
"D.P.D." I was with "Dallas" PD in the 1970s and 80s. Their guns were marked the same way on the backstrap. At the time these were M15s and M64s. You might be able to find out through the Dallas Police Museum if/when they issued M10s so marked.

Bob

For some unknown reason Dallas was my guess also. Not being a Texan I thought maybe it would be DFW PD.

CAJUNLAWYER · Mar 25, 2009

Originally posted by 2152hq:
The caliber markings can be changed w/o too much of a problem before a new blue applied.

Neat Gun!! Congrats..

Definately change the calibre markings on the barrel. Some dummy may try to shoot 38's out of it with disasterous results.

If it was me-I'd leave it "Bone Stock" and shoot the snot out of it.

target tech · Mar 25, 2009

Anything is possible with a big enough hammer.

pharmer · Mar 25, 2009

Originally posted by CAJUNLAWYER:

Neat Gun!! Congrats..

Click to expand...

Definately change the calibre markings on the barrel. Some dummy may try to shoot 38's out of it with disasterous results.

"Where is that sledge, barrel says 38 spl. Hold my beer while...." Joe

buckeyeshooter · Mar 25, 2009

I like it, cool gun!

Tom K · Mar 26, 2009

For what it's worth, I also have a S&W 1917 sleeved to .22 caliber, that I found at a gun show for $400 in 2007. The seller also had a Colt 1917 done the same way (also $400)and I probably shoulda' bought both, just for the hell of it.

Turns out it doesn't shoot worth a flip, but it is kinda cool having an N frame .22. Supica's book says there may have been some Triple Locks originally chambered in .22 (presumably by special order), but he didn't sound like it was confirmed.

rayb · Mar 26, 2009

Very nice, great find & price, and I'd have boughtit for a little bit more just to have it, if necessary.

Thanks for sharing.

rayb

Sgt 127 · Mar 27, 2009

I have a Dallas PD Heavy barrel model 10. The markings are exactly the same, in the same place. No question in my mind that came from Dallas PD. Now, I wonder if DPD converted it for cheap practice. I know the old DPD Rangemaster, I will call him and ask if the department ever converted any of thier guns. The number on the frame makes me think it was done in house as I have never seen a DPD model 10 with the number, perhaps it was only on the .22's....of which I have seen exactly one...yours.

Sgt 127 · Mar 29, 2009

Well, I got ahold of my source at DPD. According to him, they never converted any of thier model 10's to .22. His best guess, an Officer retired and bought his gun then had it converted, or sold it to someone that converted it late.

As a side note, the DPD was stamped on the backstraps in the property room starting about 1975, prior to that, they were unmarked. Also, Dallas PD never stamped another number on thier guns, they kept track of them only by serial number.

So, that may not be a Dallas PD gun. Perhaps another "D" Police Dept bought it and converted it and stamped the number on it. I can't see someone converting it and adding a number to it, I would have to guess that is an agency mark... You may need to letter that thing. Hope the little bit of info I found is helpful, really, I think it just made your job harder.

Model 10 - chambered for .22LR

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