I take a fly fishing trip in the Rockies each summer and need a carry revolver. Black bears and moose are usually in the areas I fish. What iyo would be a good all around revolver for this situation?
Thanks for your input!!!

I'm certainly no expert, but I think Moose should be of greater concern than the black bear. I've heard many suggest the .44 mag should be a minimum for bear, not sure about moose.

With that said, I'd rather have a 357, than nothing, and if I were going with a 357, I'd sure load it with the heaviest load I could find. Maybe Buffalo Bore or Corbon ammo.

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JD 500

Um...look don't take this the wrong way, but I grew up out west and have backpacked all over the west for years. I have seen innumerable black bears in the wild, I have seen a real life grizzly bear while backpacking, I have seen moose in the Sawtooths. Every single bear I have ever seen including the grizzly ran away. I once jumped a mother and her cub. They immediately ran up a tree. The point: the risk of being attacked by a bear or moose is exceedingly remote.

The second point. You ever kill a deer? I have killed a few deer, and antelope...with high powered rifles. They almost never die immediately. Deer weigh 150 pounds.

So the basic idea is --- a bear is going to attack you and you are going to stop it with a handgun. Any handgun. Let me tell you what is actually going to happen. To whatever extent that bear was angry enough to attack you, it is going to be that much more angry after you wound it with your handgun. It may actually enjoy ripping you limb from limb and swallowing your handgun whole. When I saw that grizzly I was carrying my 45 and I remember being in awe at the sheer power of the animal. As it walked (it didn't see me at first) I saw the muscles ripple under the skin. Awesome. I remember having the distinct thought that shooting that thing with my pistol would be about the dumbest thing I could possibly do in that situation.

I knew a hunting guide from Alaska who actually was attacked by a grizzly and who successfully defended himself with a firearm. That firearm was a 375 H&H rifle and he shot the bear in the head. The context of this conversation - we were talking about how dumb it is to think you are going to stop an attacking bear with a deer hunting rifle.

I like guns and I like to carry them when I am outdoors. Handguns are great protection against 2 legged animals that recognize them on sight and are deterred.

The best protection against bears is a clean campsite with your food tied up 20+ feet in the trees and all food and animal waste moved way, way out of the campsite.

If you like 357s (I do) then bring one with you. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that it or any other handgun is going to do jack if a bear attacks you.

My 2 cents...

To actually answer your question -- I'd recommend a 360PD, nice and light. Great protection against 2 legged animals.

I do not believe that handguns are useless in such encounters. There have been many cases in which a handgun has made the difference between life and death. Of course, there have also been many cases where they simply did not work. But to say that they are worthless is a bit misleading. I can almost guarantee you that those that say that would still carry a handgun, if given the choice, in such areas. Why then would they go to the trouble if they thought they were useless? Back to your question, carry a 357 if you have one, but a 44 mag, among others, would be superior if you can handle and shoot them o.k. I have a Ruger Alaskan in 44 mag that is quite packable that I like. wyatte

I'd typed about a 4 page response to this.... But decided to edit it a bit.
First: DO NOT trust a moose!!! They will kill you in a heart beat if surprised - They "usually" DO NOT run from people!!! You can probably do a search on ADN.com and find MANY instances of folks killed by moose in Anchorage. RESPECT THE MOOSE -- if one is near keep an eye on it while you're moving on.
Here's some great info on bears and bear country.

A 5 year old girl in Talkeetna once told me - "The moose look friendly and cuddly, but NEVER try to pet one." Words to live by...

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In dog years I'm dead.

Sweet! lol

-Jim

Got some blood pumping on a lazy Friday afternoon, huh!!!!!

If you are fishing you could expect to see mountain lion tracks. I do. The other track you will see is human.

Bear, not so much. Moose maybe. Right to be afraid of the moose. Bullwinkle J. Moose was a cartoon.

It really depends on the area where you are fishing.

I assume that you are planning for a trip next year as summer is over here in the Rockies.

When I go out I have a 44Mag with 305gr Cor-Bons. The other option is a nice 240gr LRN. My wife carries a .357 as she is comfortable shooting that gun.


Ah, the real answer...

Carry what you are comfortable with.

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Doug "N Frame Addict"
CO

It's the damned chickadees that have me worried. They're everywhere. And they look right through you with their god-awful souless eyes. Their constant threat of Chick-A-Dee-Dee-Dee is enough to get the hair standing up on your back....Lord help me, I've never been so scared of any wild animal.

What handgun would you recommend for dealing with these nefarious ruffians. There so damned fast and small ~ I can never seem to draw a bead fast enough and fire my 500 Magnum on them.


giz

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Non gratum anus rodentum

First, let me say that I defer to you in all matters relating to this topic because I did not grow up out west and have not backpacked in bear country.

Second, although the risk of being attacked is remote, that doesn't excuse not being prepared in case an attack does happen.
I just listened to the interview that Tom Gresham did with Greg Brush regarding his being charged by a brown (grizzly?) bear and defense of said attack with a Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull.
This happened basically in Mr. Brush's backyard. I know that if I were to fish, hike, hunt, travel in bear and/or moose country, I would want something on my side.
Obviously a long gun is preferred, but a handgun is better than a sharp stick or a rock.

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not limited by 30 characters

Having done much hunting in the Rockies, I do not recommend a .357 mag for bear/moose carry. HOWEVER...

If you are set on a .357, I would get a 4" S&W 686. Strong enough for lots of heavy loads; cylinder long enough to use longer, heavier bullets.

I've encountered moose once, which I'd not care to repeat. My dad bumped face to face into a cow and a calf moose while elk hunting- he had to play hide-and-seek around a boulder before she finally gave up and took off.

carry a 500 magnum...loaded stoutly...it most certainly will take bear...like any other round,shot placement is key...this round has downed bear and many animals much larger

Having tramped around much of the Rockies including Moose, Black Bear and Grizzly country I agree that the chances of being attacked are remote, that carrying a firearm is a very good and prudent idea, that handguns are ill suited to slamming large animals to the earth instantaneously, that a handgun is easiest to carry therefore more likely to be carried than a long gun, that shot placement is critical, confidence in your gun important and that these little "what if" scenarios are much more fun than they are realistic.
I sometimes carry a .38 special. I sometimes carry a .357 magnum. I Used to carry a .45 Colt. IMO the .357 is ideal. My reasoning is that a .357 is likely to get shot and become familiar. With heavy bullets it has ample penetrating ability. It is extremely loud (which MIGHT discourage an attacking animal in and of itself). The "instant stopper shots are spine and brain. The .357 has the oomph to bust skulls and spines and the shootability to make the head a viable target but if you miss(probable) it has sufficient penetrative capacity to do serious damage with body hits and perhaps the animal will die before it kills you.

The most dangerous animal in the woods walks on 2 legs, that being said an angry bear/moose/elk is nothing to take lightly. A 357 is decent protection but is NO stopper on big critters, I'd load Buffalo Bore 180 gr. JSP's or CorBon 200 gr. cast, a 4" 686 is great advice.Common sense and good woods habits will get you along way in avoiding unwanted contact of the ferocious kind. A 44 or bigger is better protection but much harder to shoot well, remember only hits count...

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Sie vis pacem parabellum

I was born and have lived all of my 71 years here in Maine except for the 3 years I spent with Uncle Sam. We have black bears and moose. I would always be cautions around any wild animal but I think I can comment on the moose question. The moose is the dumbest animal in the forest. A game warden once told me that their brain is about the size of a pea. When I was a trooper I had one run off a hundred foot cliff on to the rocks below because a car spooked him. In broad daylight. Another time, I came upon a straight section of road in a very remote part of the state with several cars backed up. Pulled around them to find mama moose and two yearlings down on their front knees licking salt off of the road. In the ditch next to them was dad, a large bull, also after the salt - he was drinking the runoff water in the ditch. Altho he kept an eye on us he never stopped drinking, even when we finally had to get out of the cruiser and actually push on the cow's forequarters to get her to move to the side of the road. Then the two yearlings and the bull followed her into a small stand of alders about as thick as your finger. As soon as they got inside the trees they stopped and turned around to watch us. I'm sure that they thought they were hiding. We have a moose season each year where they may be hunted with a permit obtained thru a lottery system. I've always felt that it's a misuse of the term "hunting." You could just about lead them up into the back of your pickup and shoot them there if it wasn't illegal, and save all of the effort of dragging them out of the woods. Call it getting meat for the table, I've got no problem with that. But hunting, it "ain't".

As far as the black bears go, they may not be as bad as the grizzly, but I've watched one come over a small hill and stand on his hind legs as he swung his head back and forth sniffing the breeze, I'm over 6 feet tall and this guy was taller than I am. I was a good distance away from him and stayed that way. A good thing to stay away from.

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... ed ...

S&W .460 or .500.

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WALSTIB

There's a gentleman this summer up north of Cody, WY near Clark, WY. that might just differ with you. He was out in the sagebrush when attacked from behind, he was able to get back up after the glancing blow, an though wounded, was able to cooly fire three times with his .41 Mag and end the fight right there. Don't have more particulars such as Double Action/Single Action, bullet weight/powder charge nor shot placement. . . but score the fight Rancher 1 : Grizzly 0

Now, the 'How to Deal With Grizzly' exhibit in the Buffalo Bill Museum advocates the use of capsicum seasoning. . . even have a fine video of a trained bear being repelled on a calm day, at a walking advance by said seasoning...

As for me and my family, I'm packing my 4" 629 with 220 to 250 gn FPJ with stout loads of 296. I'll wait on the other seasoning until after it calms down a touch and stops wigglin', perhaps while residing in a nice chile concoction....

Reminds me of the South Park episode!

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WALSTIB

At the very least a .44 Magnum (for me anyway)

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C & L

I've spent considerable time in the mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina backpacking and fly fishing, mostly alone, for up to two weeks at a time. I was treed by a momma bear with two cubs for several hours one night. I guarantee you one thing, there is no black bear alive that will withstand a GOOD shot with a .44 Magnum. I have no experience with Grizzlies (and will try to keep it that way) but a cool head and a good shot have little to fear in bear country. I set in on the autopsies of 35-50 bear (I didn't count them) and am quite familiar with their awesome bone structure. However, a good .44 Magnum with a 250-300 gr Keith or Round flat will NOT stop when hitting bone in the bear. They have to open their mouths to bite and that also leads the way to success (I would never let them get THAT close).

The only bear I shot was with a rifle (I was in Canada and they wouldn't let an alien hunt with a revolver) but would have gladly used my .44 Magnum if permitted.

Bears are awesome and admirable creatures but they are NOT bullet proof.

FWIW
Dale53

I had no idea this was so controversial...

I am not saying you have no chance of surviving a bear or moose attack with a handgun. What I am saying is that if this happens -- and it is highly unlikely -- then it is also rather unlikely that you will stop the attacking animal with a handgun. The abstract ability to kill the animal is not the same as the ability to stop it instantly with a handgun. You can definitely kill a bear with a handgun. Since a handgun is (general premise) too small, the larger the better.

If a bear attacked me and I had a handgun (of any caliber) I would try to protect myself. Maybe I would be lucky...but I'm not very optimistic... Common sense will do a lot more to protect you. Things like, do not approach a moose, do not leave things in your campsite that will attract bears, have something that makes noise while you are walking, etc.

Are you nuts?
NEVER provoke a confrontation with these critters!
I suggest carrying a bag of Cheetos to toss as a decoy while deploying your car keys from some sort of tactical quick draw rig. If all else fails lay on the ground, play dead and cover your head. Lord only knows what a pack of 'Dees could do in your hair.

The muzzle flash and noise of a 357 might deter it, but bigger is better and I feel a 44 mag is the lower end of what I would (and do) carry.

I hunt primarily with handguns now and the only thing I would consider hunting with a 357 magnum is deer and this is with an 8" barrel.

Anything else (especially things with teeth) I would consider the 44 magnum as the minimum.

Hunting is usually a controlled situation waiting for an ideal shot and placement. Something coming at you is not.

When I go out, I usually carry my S&W Backpacker.

Ha-ha!

I admit I enjoy reading these discussions when they crop up from time to time, but rarely add to them. Davidj's comments notwithdtanding, and otherwise they seemed sensible to me, I would sure rather have a .357 Magnum than nothing at all.

Common sense will do a lot more to protect you. Things like, do not approach a moose, do not leave things in your campsite that will attract bears, have something that makes noise while you are walking, etc.[/QUOTE]

[I have been reading with amazement that no one has jumped on the "file the front sight off" bandwagon yet Alaska probably sells more 44 Mag handguns per capita than any other state. The old "I'm in Alaska got to have one" deal. Has alot to do with why 44 ammo is tough to come by. Note to C&L I see the tabs on my plates have expired. gr8 in regards to the Brush episode with the 454 Casull in my mind the jury is still out on wither or not it was a DLP situation. Lastly gizamo. It's not the Chick-a-dees up here it's the skeeters cuz they can stand flat-footed and mate with a turkey. What do the fish & feather boys up here carry? Shotguns What do I carry? Model 60-15 357 go figure

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Jumpin Gee-hoss-a-fat..Bob

.44 Mag or larger.

If this is a one-time trip....44 Mag. If you're going on a regular basis, go bigger.

Nygma...

So if I toss the bag of Cheetos should I turn and run away screaming like a twelve year old girl, or stand motionless and hope they gorge themselves and forget their hunger for human flesh. Maybe I should invest in a drum fed tactical semi auto shotgun...

Does anyone know if Chickadee Packs hunt at night? I swear I've heard them just beyond the roaring campfires I have to build at night ~ you know....just in case.

giz

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Non gratum anus rodentum

I share my cheetos with no one! Seriously those darn chickadees do hunt at nite, I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew another guy who's cousin was pecked very badly, happened about 0 darkthirty. Horrible stuff...

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Sie vis pacem parabellum

You sure those weren't Snipes??

Larger than 44Mag is not really necessary.

Bear, moose and cat attacks are not really common. More people probably die from hitting a deer or elk with their autos.

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Doug "N Frame Addict"
CO

The "bear" experts sure can fill a thread. I will be sure to take notes from all the 1st hand accounts.

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"Give me Liberty..."

You people talk as if being turned into bear turds is a BAD thing. Hell, you COULD be a U.S. congressman.... Imagine how bad that must be.

When I'm in the boondocks I pack iron based on confronting two-legged varmints (my daily carry Model 13-3).

If the bad luck lottery strikes and I get et by one of the four legged types I'd try to take that as a compliment...at least in "Big Picture" sense. But I guess in the immediate "I'm about to be digested" sense I'd be a little less philosophical!

On a strictly statistical basis you're much more likely to be hurt driving to the trailhead than by any animule in our steadily shrinking wilderness. Probably the safest thing any of us do is buckle up and think pleasant thoughts.

Go with what makes you feel good. Some folks could have a Apache gunship fly along and still feel vulnerable. Try to be realistic...... 99.9999% of it is in your head.

Moose? Bear? if attacked you could always shoot yourself.
Seriously unless you come upon them suddenly they will likely move on rather than risk confrontation... however that being said what would you risk your life on/ I'd feel comfortable with a .460 or above., or you could wear tinkle bells

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Fe Feo Fuerte

Fun thread,

I've live trapped black bears for relocation. Had feuds with them over dumpsters. Tussled with one or two over grease traps on Gas Grills.... I'd rather deal with bears that were not habituated to humans....every black bear I found out into the weeds was respectable....


giz

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Non gratum anus rodentum

My son shot a charging grizzly bear with a 20 ga. with slugs twice. Thankfully the bear turned and went 100 yards before it died.

A 357, or any handgun will only scare the animal if shot in front of the animal to haze it. Deer can be a hazard too. It is not the species, it is the attitude of the animal involved. Grizzlies do have an attitude.

Bring a 357 that you can shoot well and save the last shot for yourself!

If you already have a .357 (and I suspect you do), carry it of course and be very alert to danger.

Save the big bucks and don't buy an S&W 500, unless you need this as an excuse to get one.

.

FINALLY! Titan, you got it. Just looking for another excuse to buy one more!!

Being a bear guide in Alaska, I could go on and on about how fast they can get onto you and how hard they are to kill. I pack a .44 Magnum or a heavily loaded .45 Colt.
BUT, a friend of mine had to kill a black bear this past summer with a .357. He said it was about a 200 pound animal and the 357 worked great, putting him down in a hurry.
It was in his campsite and acting very aggressive. After he had killed the bear the park rangers showed up looking for a problem bear. They were trying to kill it. They still gave him a ticket for saving them the trouble. No fine, just a citation to cover their butts. Typical.
Remember the three S's
Shoot
Shovel
Shut up

God I love the bear stories... You should carry a handgun IF you can actually shoot one. You would be surprised at the amount of folks that can't hit a barn door. If you cant hit a tennis ball and keep it bouncing away from you then by all means a short bbl shotgun with slugs and 00 Buck shot loaded alternatively. Key is to be vigilant in someone else's backyard and be able to shoot what you carry.

I would choose a .44 Magnum because that is the largest thing I can shoot well. If I could handle a .460 or .500 then I would choose one of them. So I guess my advice would be, choose whatever the largest caliber is that you can shoot well. If that is "only" a .357 Magnum, that is still better than nothing.

I believe the *most* effective way to defend yourself against being eaten by a bear is to carry a .22 pistol and bacon.

Also.....ALWAYS fish or hike with another person.....preferably an ex-wife,
congressman or revenue agent.

Stash the bacon in your partner's pack or jacket when they are not looking.

If confronted by a bear, it *should* gravitate to your bacon-enhanced comrade. If things really get desperate, and you are confronted by a full-on grizzly charge...just shoot the other person in the leg with the .22 and run away!

Problem solved!

Man, I love bear threads.

Where'd his bullet hit it? Do you know his load and bullet weight?

Attitude? Ya think? They're nothing BUT attitude. They are the masters of everything they see and they know it. WE just don't know it! Black bears are nothing to take lightly either. I have them come through the yard occasionally. A few years back a mother and her cub came through the yard, and one of the dogs barked at the cub, as he didn't like it eating his food. The cub took a swipe at the dog (Boxer/Golden lab cross- good sized) and proceeded to throw the dog's house up into a tree. The mother was busy eating another dog's food while he wisely cowered in his dog house. They may look soft and cuddly, but they're stronger than you think. The biggest handgun I have is a .357, but knowing bears, about the only way it would kill a bear is to put the barrel into the bear's ear and pull the trigger while he's making a meal of you. Pepper spray, despite what the eco-freaks say, will only add flavor to the bear's meal. A bear's skull will deflect most handgun rounds. My late father-in law was a game warden with Montana Fish and Game, now known as Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife, and Parks. He loved the model 66 he was Issued, but would not count on it to kill anything other than an animal that was already down and had to be put out of it's misery. Back in 1968, I worked in Silvergate, Montana, just outside Yellowstone Park, and just about every one was talking about two hunters who had been killed the previous hunting season. From what evidence was there, it was concluded that the hunters, one armed with a .30-30, and the other with a .30-06, had been attacked by a grizzly (bear, not a University of Montana athlete). Both hunters had emptied their weapons into the griz, who didn't like it. The hunters were killed in a grizzly manner (pun intended),and their Jeep had been pushed or tossed off of the road. The bear was found a few miles away, it had bled to death. - Ed.

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Shoot the CPU, not the monitor

Get thee to a gun shop and SPEND!

.

No arguement with applying liberal amounts of common sense, and I'm not looking to pick a fight with an angry grizzly, moose, elk, deer....badger, wolverine...etc. Adrenalin in the veins of an angry or scared mammal allows them to withstand all sorts of injury.

Gunfighters of the old west used to talk about the dead man's 10 seconds, in which they could inflict a number of serious to mortal wounds on their opponents themselves. . . food for thought.

You've made a good point,

nuf said?

BMC

No bear or moose story here, I don't like big magnums, but if I were going into bear or moose country, I would go out and buy at least a 44 magnum.
That being said, I plan on staying out of that kind of country.

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May God Bless The USA

[I have been reading with amazement that no one has jumped on the "file the front sight off" bandwagon yet Alaska probably sells more 44 Mag handguns per capita than any other state. The old "I'm in Alaska got to have one" deal. Has alot to do with why 44 ammo is tough to come by. Note to C&L I see the tabs on my plates have expired. gr8 in regards to the Brush episode with the 454 Casull in my mind the jury is still out on wither or not it was a DLP situation. Lastly gizamo. It's not the Chick-a-dees up here it's the skeeters cuz they can stand flat-footed and mate with a turkey. What do the fish & feather boys up here carry? Shotguns What do I carry? Model 60-15 357 go figure[/QUOTE]

Interesting that you mention the armament of the F & W service. Last summer I got into reading a couple of books on bear attacks (can't find the reference right off). The author was an expert from British Columbia and went around teaching how to avoid attacks and training govt. and private loggers how to defend, using a shotgun. However, if I recall correctly, he mentioned that he now recommended a 45-70 and that there was movement toward carrying that caliber. Don't recall the reasoning.

My personal reasoning for carrying the rifle rather than the shotgun is that it can reach out further and begin the fight, if there's going to be one, a little further away and you get in the first punch with the possibility of ending the fight right there. Lots of folks on the Marlin forum talk about their 'bang flop' stops with this caliber. Kind of negating the 'it always runs away' side of things. My personal experience is that I've had some run a few yards, but most go down hard and fast, and they aren't with central nervous system hits either. Some have been through the chest when the animal was at a dead run and the only reason it traveled beyond the spot where I hit him was his own momentum at the time.

By the way, the part about starting the fight on my own terms comes from that reading, the author spent a lot of time describing the behavior clues of both black bears (an increasing threat up there in BC) and grizzly which are indicators that the bear is predatory rather than startled or curious. Seems that many attacks start out generally looking like the bear is just moseying through, when in reality, you've been on the top of the menu for quite a while....

My $0.02,

BMC

However, if I recall correctly, he mentioned that he now recommended a 45-70 and that there was movement toward carrying that caliber.


My $0.02,

BMC[/QUOTE]
BMC..Guess what I have my eye on? Yup Marlin 45-70 The bears I have taken in Alaska were all taken with 458 Win Mag. Which believe or not was traded some time back for pair of S&W handguns By the way loved hunting in the Blues when I lived in Washington.

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Jumpin Gee-hoss-a-fat..Bob