S&W Model 19(-5) 4" ROUND BUTT - U.S. GOVT. CONTRACT

dpast32

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
264
Reaction score
220
Location
Southern New England
Hello Guy's,


I'm interested to know if anyone else of this Forum had ANY knowledge of a particular S&W Model 19 I have in my collection ? I purchased in locally, back in the early 1990's. Being a long time S&W lover / collector, I knew as soon as I looked at it that it was somewhat unusual ! Although I've owned many M-19's with Round Butt's, they were all either a 2.5" or 3" barrel. This example was Blued, w/ the P.C. style adj. sights & P.C. style service grips. It looked exactly like a basic 4" M-19, except for that ROUND BUTT ! It was either an unusual, special contract / production run, or someone had installed a 4" barrel on a short bbl'd M-19 ? After a check of the box label, & bit of investigation, I learned that it was from a contract of @ 680 pieces mfg'd circa March 1988, for the U.S. Govt.. ( S&W BOX LABEL: Serial # AYY 4XXX / Code: 100704 / Spec. Order: 9584 ) The ultimate end user was the U.S. Dept. of State's Bureau of Diplomatic Security, for issue to their D.S.S. Special Agents. ( DSS = Diplomatic Security Service ) The only other production run I'm aware of using this particular configuration of a 4" bbl's K Frame w/ Rd Butt, was for issue the U.S. Navy's N.I.S. Agents, a few years prior. ( NIS = Naval Investigative Service ) I tracked this unusual S&W from the factory to Lew Horton's, then ultimately to the local shop where I picked up. This special run appears to either never been issued at all, or perhaps just a few of the contract were ever issued for use by the DSS Agents. When received by the Govt., they were in the process of transitioning from revolvers to SIG P.228 9mm pistols for duty use. Apparently, this particular batch of revolvers arrived too late in the transition process to be issued & used. That's a good thing as I see it, because it allowed me to end up with a brand new, unissued example for my collection !! OK, that's pretty much what I know about these unusual S&W's. If anyone has ANY information concerning this contract / production run, I'D DEEPLY APPRECIATE hesaring from them.

Regards, dpast32
 
Register to hide this ad
Gees. Maybe we should be asking you the questions about it. :D

Seems you have a good handle on the details about it. All of the ones I have seen from that run have had the same Spec Ord number and started with AYY or AYZ.

I have also seen 2.5" version in that same range that had a matte blue finish. Is yours bright or matte blue?

Besides that State Dept run (and the ONI/NIS), I also know of some matte blue 2.5" made for them in 1986.

By the way, Welcome to the forum!
 
Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the history of your Mod 19. Have you tried to get it lettered, might be worth the money.
Welcome to the forum and
Where are the pictures.
 
Hello and welcome dpast,
That certainly is an interesting revolver you described. A letter would answer a lot of questions. In the interim, I hope you will post some photos.
 
IIRC the NIS guns all went to the FBI. I saw a couple years back that were carried by Bureau Firearms Instructors (now retired) who were friends of mine. I am sure they were either all destroyed eventually or converted to 'red handle' trainers.
 
You seem to be on top of your particular gun and your post reminded me of a 4" round butt 686 I picked up some years back. It is not marked as a CS so I am not sure about it's history.
 
Good Morning Guys,


To answer the query as to asking for a factory letter, I "kind of" already did that. Years ago I called Roy Jinks & that's where I got the data on it being mfg'd for the U.S. State Dept. In addition to my conversation with Roy, I also received an E-mail from S&W relaying pretty much the same data. If I do end up keeping the gun, I just may spring for an official letter. I'm sure it will be nice to have along with the gun. In response to ken158's question on a 4" RB Model 686, these, along with a similar version w/ a 3" bbl. were produced for the U.S. Customs Service back in the mid to late 1980's. I was looking at a 3" example at a local distributor years ago, boy was it a beautiful piece. IIRC, this particular contract has some form of logo of marking inside the crane yoke, to identify them as a U.S. Customs contract. Please feel free to ask about any unusual, contract production S&W's you may have, I just may have had one of my own. Talk to you later,


Regards, dpast32
 
DSS Model 19s

DPast,

I know something of them. They were primarily for the Marines assigned to the Marine Security Guard Program. That is, they were used by the Marine Detachments overseas at our Embassies and Consulates General. The gun you describe should have a brushed blue (not matte, but not too polished), Round Butt and a simple black on black front/rear sight.

Additionally, it should have a service hammer/trigger and would have a Serial Number range of AYY thru AYZ if memory serves.

I carried one on MSG Duty (China and Sweden) from 1993-95. The primary ammunition was the Federal 125gr +P NYCLAD hollow-point. That's what we practiced with, qual'd with and carried.

BTW: I'm doing a shadow box with my MSG pictures in it. Could I trouble you to take a few pics of it for the shadow box? I used to put Hogue Monogrips and/or Butler Creek (Uncle Mike's) SB/RB conversion grips on it. I carried mine in my personally bought Safariland 070 with other Clarino gear.

GREAT guns. Elegant in their simplicity. We were taught HOW to fight with them. Many of us could speedload them in about 1.5 seconds.

My e-mail address is: [email protected] or [email protected] Thanks for the kind consideration!


-Greg Topp
CWO2/USMC
 
  • Like
Reactions: edl
gtoppcop could you provide us any details on the training done with these DSS 19's?

Do you know if any 4" 19-7's were also deployed? Thanks for the insight, and your time! Regards 18DAI.
 
Like posted above, I worked with a couple FBI Firearms Instructors, in late 70-early 80's who both carried 4" RB mod 19's. Nice guns. They said they were their issue weapons. I was carrying a SB 19 at the time, so of course we were comparing. Good Luck ,Bob
 
i had a 4' rd butt m19 that i believe was one of these that i bought back in the late 90's! i had no idea what it was at the time and ended up selling it. It had a matt'ish finish and back on black sights! it was one of the best revolvers i have ever owned! of course i love the round butt frame profile and will buy one over any other style if given my druthers!
 
The FBI used them for a short time. When they were told to turn them in, a lot of guys were unhappy. I work with a former FBI agent and the gun was very popular. Some guys bought regular square butt 19's and had the armorer at Qunatico convert them to round butts.
 
I've also had a converted round butt that was really well done, the finish was perfect and looked factory, but you could see the backstrap serrations end where the mod started. it was also a pretty cool sixgun!
 
This is going to make you Forum menbers just sick...

Several years ago a local gun store was contracted by a certain Federal Agency to destroy all the S&W revolvers they had at the local offfice.
There was a bunch of them.

Still makes me sick to think about it.
 
sick......ugghhh.

You are right I own 2 mdl 19's. A -4,2.5" and a -8, 4" RB. I hate to hear some of these fine guns were destroyed.:mad:
 
Back
Top