[MODS: This post contains several video links. They are all relevant to the topic of shooting the S&W .500, but if somehow this post violates the forum's guidelines, just delete it without sending me a nastygram...]

I keep getting emails from people interested in the .500, asking me what to expect from this gun.

I never want to talk down to anyone, but it concerns me that some of you may not realize what you are in for, if you have little to no experience with heavy recoiling magnum revolvers. By "heavy recoiling," I mean something with MORE recoil than a factory .44 magnum round out of a 48 ounce gun. If you've been shooting a 329 with magnum rounds, you can stop reading...

Below is a vid of one of my customers shooting my .500 alongside a 5" full-lug .460. In the .500, he is shooting a 300 grain Hornady factory load going about 2000 FPS. He is an experienced magnum shooter and knows what he's doing. For him, recoil with this load is quite manageable, even one-handed...

YouTube - S&W 500 & 460 Dual-wielding!!!

Below is a guy shooting a factory 3 1/8" barrel (4'' with compensator) .500 with a 700 grain round at 1050 FPS from Ballistic Supply. He has no experience with handguns more powerful than .44 mag, and the heavy recoil startles him. The barrel goes slightly past vertical. BTW the 700 grain bullet likely went unstable in 30-60 feet out of that gun.

http://www.youtube.com/user/1994pear.../1/fjmtUFrFBc4

Here's a vid in slo-mo of a kid (meaning half my age) shooting one of my guns with a 500 Hornady factory load. He needs a better stance and technique, but it was his first try at the .500, and he didn't drop the gun or let it hit him in the head...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFFMvpsKl90

Next, here's a girl "doubling" a factory 8 3/8" .500. I have personally witnessed this twice with two of my students. The gun recoils enough to compress not only the rubber grip but the palm fat in your hand and push the gun and trigger away from your trigger finger, letting the trigger reset. Your brain is still telling your finger to put pressure on the trigger, and you fire the gun again, usually straight up. Use a firmer grip. Although the gun doubles on her, she maintains her stance and the gun comes nowhere near hitting her. A firmer grip and she'll shoot the gun like a champ.

YouTube - FULL AUTO 500 S&W

When reports of these "doublings" first came out around June of 2003, S&W shot some extreme high speed footage of what happens when the .500 fires. Here's S&W engineer (and chief .500 designer) Brett Curry firing the 500 one-handed. The vid starts just as the primer has ignited the powder. Watch as the gun recoils ALMOST enough to reset the trigger. The gun initially moves straight back, compressing both rubber grip and palm fat. The clip ends before the muzzle even starts to rise. We are looking at about five milliseconds span of time in this clip. Note that he bullet passes the B/C gap at :02 and exits the muzzle at :06.

Here's the shortened and slowed-down section of the S&W vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s37ZTy4hLUU

And here's the entire original S&W vid that gives an even better view of the trigger almost resetting:

http://www.youtube.com/user/dwebb210.../1/q2joba9pbZw

And last of all, here's what happens when someone with no experience with heavy recoil gets turned loose with a .500 by some idiot boyfriend. Note that this girl is about the same size as the young woman in video #4, but her technique is all wrong.

When newbies get excited at seeing the .500 and want to shoot it, here's what I do: A cylinder out of a K22, then a K38 shooting wadcutters, then regular .38s, then a Model 27 with magnums. If they're still in, then a 6 1/2" M29 with 10 Unique/250 Keith. Still game? 25 296/250 Keith. More? 5" .500 with a 550 over a case full of Trail Boss. Still with me? 550 over a case full of 4759 for 1325 FPS. Most women and some men have had enough by then, but a few have gone farther, including one woman who made it all the way to the end, 725s @ 1250. My rule is you can quit at any time, but you can't go up until you finish the cylinder you're on. That's how I do it.

Anyway, here's the vid:

YouTube - Girl pistol whips herself in the face with 500.magnum (fail)

Use a crush grip, extend your arms and lean forward with one foot farther to the rear, and work up to the heaviest loads gradually. Don't EVER shoot this gun with a loose grip and your arms relaxed.

Be careful out there...

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JR, the 500 Specialist

Interesting and in my opinion, good advice, however, several of the links didn't work for me and I really wanted to see the Brett Curry video.

I've been shooting the .500s since they came out and love the gun. On the other hand, I've never had someone at the range take me up on an offer to shoot one of mine. And as you know very well, there's a massive range of recoil from light or even "plinking" loads to max loads and when some beginner says they don't recoil heavily, I always suspect a light load. Don

Thanks for posting that, John Ross. I'm with DonD, agree that your advice is very valid, that the 500 can cause injury to the shooter if he/she is either inexperienced (and poorly coached) or complacent.

I likewise could not view three of the links, the second, third and fifth. I'd seen the one of the girl who had the double before. Watching your customer do the two-handed bit was interesting, I noticed that he did the classic counter-balance lean-back rather than take a more aggressive forward-leaning stance, and yet he did not unbalance when shooting. I had a friend who shot one of my 500s a few years back, and I remember him doing that stand-upright-and-lean-back bit. He was a fairly big guy and an experienced shooter, so I had neglected/failed to give him much in the way of coaching other than to say "use a real firm grip and keep some tension in your arms", and when the gun went off he had to take a couple of backward steps to prevent toppling over. No harm done, but it does cause me to think that a forward leaning stance is important with heavy recoiling handguns.

I also think that guys who take their wives/girlfriends to the range, assuming the female is not an experienced shooter, and then hand her something like a 500 to shoot, are probably more responsible for creating gun-hating women than Rosie O'Donnell and Sarah Brady combined. Guys, teach your lady to shoot with a .22. Then move up to a 38 or 9mm. When she gets comfortable with those, maybe she'll want to give your he-man gun a try, in her own good time and after she's learned the fundamentals. If she's at the range with you she likes you already and thinks you're a real macho dude, you don't need to "impress" her in that particular manner.

Most of the video links don't work anymore. Just a heads up.

Agreed, have to be really stupid to think that having the wee scared out of your girl by a hard kicking gun will make her think more highly of you. Don

Well..... I think everyone here agrees a 500 is not a gun for the novice or the occasional shooter. We're also hearing these assertions from a man who created and markets one of the best 500's available today, the John Ross 5" 500's.

The 500's are at the very upper limit of what is useful and applicable to shooting and handgun hunting, IMO, and certainly a caliber where much care and caution is to be used when shooting or re-loading. John Ross should be commended for stressing dangers in this thread as he could easily lose a sale or two because of it.

Danger for the shooter is apparent with this caliber's unanticipated recoil and the extreme noise report in many shooting and hunting situations. The unaware novice, or even those standing close to a 500 being shot could experience irrevocable damage to their hearing in certain conditions. Additionally, detonation problems have also been found with reduced loads when using some popular powders...

I should add here that the John Ross 500, by design, doesn't have a compensator and that is a big issue in reducing the noise report to the shooter.

I love my 6.5 500. But I'm aware the potential dangers associated with this gun are amplified many times over than with lesser calibers..... even the 44Mag or the 454 Casul.

JMHO

I don't think you have to be a behmoth to own and shoot a 500, it really comes down to technique and experience with heavy recoiling guns. I have a John Ross model 500 at my dealer now and my current 500 is a 7.5 PC model. I am 5'9 170lbs and average build. I shoot my 500 with little discomfort and can't wait to get the JR model on the range!

I too own one of these monsters, and love it very much. But I have learned not to offer to let everyone shoot it! I have seen the double fire a few times, with one of the people being my own 250lb. gun loving father! Now I make sure that all shooters have enough experience, and since I reload, I slowly work them up the scale of power.
Since I do reload, I like to make many different loads for this gun, But in my experience, you cant always trust load data! I too have made those rounds that (DONT IGNITE)! That is a very spooky feeling with this beast! And that was load data from a VERY respectable source! They have since corrected their recipe, but I have to wonder how many people found out the hard way?
I am still a little spooked every time I make a new batch of ammo, as I have had the most problems finding load data for the .500, and fear very much ever harming myself or the gun, its just so powerful, I could only imagine the damage. I have also heard about problems with bullet slip during recoil with the .500 bullets but have never experienced it. I bought the hornady dies that have the extra taper crimp die, and even as a novice reloader, I used the extra die and have never had a bullet slip yet, but now I keep an eye on all these things! Yeah its alot to worry about, But very rewarding when it all works right.
With all that said, just make sure if you own one of these, just use your judgement on who fires it, and make sure they know what their in for, that way we get to KEEP these fine hand canons!

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Omiedudeman

Am I alone in believing that muscle mass has a whole lot to do with big boomers during recoil? The less muscle mass you have from your upper back and shoulders connecting down to your hands then the worse off you are going to be. Mr. Double Fister there looked pretty bulky and handled them just fine whereas a skinny person doing the same trick I would think would have toppled over on their butt. I guess a large fat guy would have a better footing on the ground over a skinny guy but I still think it is more about muscle mass being able to hold up to the recoil.

No doubt that muscle-mass has something to do with it. However, my skinny daughter who is 5'7" and weighs 108 has shot my 500 with 440grain maximum loads, and with a proper stance and some coaching she didn't get set-back too far.

Try the links now.

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JR, the 500 Specialist

Thanks John,

I'm a big fan of boomers and 44MAG in particular.

Owned a S&W 460V and loved it, a hell of a round and a lot of fun to shoot.

Currently run a 500S&W in a T/C Encore with a 15" barrel.

To be honest (and I may have to hand in my man card because of this), it's more of a cartridge than I like to shoot/handle.

Maybe it's the platform and a S&W Revolver would be easier to shoot but it's very serious business.

Having the biggest and baddest on the block comes at a price gents.

John, this might be off topic a bit but, have you had any feedback on shooting 500 specials in the 500 as far as accuracy is concerned and what velocity is the 500 specials rated at. I bought a couple boxes from my dealer but have yet to shoot any of them yet.

Not off-topic at all. I have fired a few rounds of Cor-Bon .500 Special that Peter Pi gave me, and they are good loads, but I haven't really done any testing at all with the caliber.

Based on the experiences of both the factory and a lot of users with the .460, I'd expect accuracy of the .500 Sp. to be degraded only slightly if at all. Users of scoped 460s off of sandbags are reporting 100 yard groups around 2" with the 460 case and 3" when using 45 Colt brass. 2MOA VS 3MOA is a difference you can't detect when shooting an open-sighted gun offhand.

As a handloader, I prefer to shoot all magnum revolvers with full-length brass to avoid the issue of residue buildup in the chambers, among other things (having to reset my progressive loader, an extra type of brass to deal with, etc.)

The .500 Sp. is an excellent round with a SAAMI spec working pressure of 38,500 PSI VS 60,000 for the mag. The ideal platform for this cartridge would be a shortened X-Frame in both steel and Ti-Scan, as I have urged for over 5 years. Such a gun (with the right barrel contour) would have even better balance than my 5" mag, and would give the kind of ballistics that most 500 mag handloaders are now shooting on a regular basis, i.e. 400-450 grain bullets at 1350-1450 FPS.

All the engineering AND TOOLING for an X-frame with a cylinder 1.900" long has already been done by Brett Curry, including a 7-shot .44 Magnum version in both steel and TiScan, but management at S&W changed and the project got shelved, for reasons that continue to elude me. A 7-shot X-frame .44 mag with a 1.900" cylinder would eat 320 grain loads forever and drive Redhawk sales off a cliff, particularly if the steel gun was also available in a 5-shot .454 Casull and 5-shot .475 Linebaugh.

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JR, the 500 Specialist

I emailed S&W to let them know that I'd purchase a 7-shot 44 built on the X-frame. Bonus if it has a Ti Cylinder like the newer 520. Love that 2-piece barrel.

My buddy and I are goofing around with our new 500's this past January.

He had a number of handloads for us to play with.

Gotta love a day off and ammo to burn.

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Mr. Ross....AFTER I scrape up the coin to pick up one of your 5" 500s...I'll join the chorus in convincing S&W to make a 5-shot .475 Linebaugh X-frame to go with my Ruger #2 (a #3 action with #1 wood) and my Freedom Arms M757 in the same.

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A Smith & Wesson Beats 4 Aces

Great thread here. I'm expecting the 500 to have a good amount recoil, but I'm prepared and have been coached up by someone who owns one. I'm pretty excited to go fire it for the first time, but I have to wait until the weather warms up. Thanks for the info!

John, the last video has been removed from the link you have. I've seen the video, jerks like that should be castrated.

I've allowed several folks to shoot my 500, from small to large, and have never had anyone disappoined. However, I carry a variety of handloads to the range with me when I take the gun, so I let them shoot the lighter variety, such as a case of trailboss over ~400 grain bullet. I haven't had many want to fire a bunch of rounds!

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US Marine, 16 years+

Just got an early model 8.375" 500 lightly used. Has the old style compensator. Came with a few empty rounds which used LP primers not LR, so it's early, IMHO.

Loaded up some 350g XTP's with 18g Unique as per Lyman 49, and a few with 11.0g Titegroup as per MD Smith. Ordered some 335g lead which will go over Trail Boss. I have H110 and Lil Gun. We'll get there.

I routinely shoot 34g H110 with 300g JSP .50AE, and 24g H110 with 240g JSP in .44 mag.

Fantastic response, it's exactly how I "allow" almost any shooter to shoot the 500. People see my wife shoot 50 rounds though it and think its child's play. What they don't know is she has shooting guns from age 5 and knows what a good form is. True having a good grip and muscle mass help but knowledge and the understanding of hand howitzers is key to mastering this animal. I only weigh 165lbs and my wife weighs less. She prefers my hand loaded 375 gr. bullets while I like those too along with my custom 680 gr. thumpers. I just love the big guys watching my wife shoot that thing like a pro and then see them get pushed around with a case full of Trail Boss. Anyways, great post and very, very informative on this fantastic revolver. Happy shooting guys and be good humans!

TO EACH HIS OWN, and I'm sure a few people can put them to good use. in all honesty however if a 357mag is not enough gun, it's time to grab a rifle.

I tip my hat to you monster bore shooters. I decided awhile back that it wasn't for me, I don't need that much recoil in my life, and I'm more than fairly recoil tolerant most of the time. "Recoil is your friend" as someone once told me. I gave up monster bore rifles, too. Just don't need it. But, having some experience, and a tidbit of knowledge, I have two comments.

First, the dual wielder with the .460 and .500 is a solid mass young man and with his arms locked I'd expect him to be able to absorb that much recoil. However, his footwork/body position/stance, by any name, is all wrong. At least IMO and as far as I can tell. His feet are parallel when they should be one more forward than the other and his back is bent. You can't pick your stance really well in a gunfight or when a bear come at you but to demonstrate shooting anything you should use proper form. had he done so his body would not have rocked backwards as much as it did. Just my opinion.

Also, and very interestingly, by using his arms locked out he was able to keep those guns way out there during recoil. But as we saw in another video, using a two handed Weaver or isosceles stance with any kind of elbow bending does cause you to risk the recoil forcing a deeper bend and the gun coming back at your face. I only mention this because when I tip my hat to you folks who shoot monster bores I am constrained to tell you a story, a Ruger story as I recollect but it doesn't matter much.

Early in the time when the monster bore cartridges were moving into the mainstream and not just being made by Linebaugh and Frontier, sometime around ten years ago or so, some shooters took a Ruger .454 to a range outside San Antonio and had a whale of a good time with it. One of their sons present, a 12 year old, asked to shoot it and his dad allowed him. He was given instruction, etc. The recoil from the first round caused the gun to fly all the way back, the hammer hit the boy directly in the head, and he died. (You can still find the story on line if you want to check me out.)

Moral of the story - these monster calibers are not for the inexperienced nor for anyone with less than adequate arm strength. I'm not saying don't play with them - I have the experience and the strength but I simply won't do it any more - I'm just asking in the name of gun safety to ensure that anyone you allow to play with you is really ABLE to do so safely. Keeping the gun pointed safely downrange is one thing. Being able to keep it there AFTER the round leaves the muzzle is another.

***GRJ***

don't know what some people are trying to prove by giving women, kids and non exp'd shooters heavy recoiling guns. but please only put 1 round in the gun, for the shooters and general publics safety. best you can hope to do is give the newbie a lifetime case of the flinches, or turn them off to the shooting sports entirely.

John, I still own the one I bought from you years back and can't wait for your .460 to match it. Any thoughts on when these will be out?
Steve

John I would opt in for a pair of the 460 if you get that project underway

Here is the best advice I can share with novice shooters wanting to shoot a 500s&w, just load one round in the cylinder this will prevent double fire....... lol

Bumping this classic thread with a question.

Assuming I'm unable to get my mitts on one of Ross's 5" 500s (which seems more and more likely as time goes by), what would be the way to go among production models? I'm mostly buying the gun for ****s and giggles, but it might see some use for shooting pigs and whatnot.

I'm leaning towards the 6" with fixed compensator. I like the idea of slightly longer sight radius as well as dwell time for the projectile. Not having an extra piece which can break or be lost is also appealing. That being said, my favorite wheelgun thus far in life is my 4" Model 29.

Thoughts?

Love the big guns, 454 Alaskan, 500 Smith or Dan Wesson 445...Whatever goes big I love. But on that note, I'm 6'4 and weigh over 350lbs... but my teenage son got his mom's size and is only 130lbs but I started him off right ..22, .38, .357, .44 THEN 500 cor bon special (yes I bought a. ton of 500special) now he's fired the 400grn. If you teach someone to shoot the big guns, teach them right.

And as one former 500 magnum owner learned (not me)the hard way and the expensive lawsuit that followed, never let strangers shoot your guns!

I have only fired a friends 500 a few times. I would certainly like to have one, but there are so many good 357's.

Great write up JR ! While I am by no means a master revolver shooter I have owned my 460XVR for about 5 months now and very much enjoy shooting the pistol. When one commits to a true "big bore" you throw out all aspects of "practical". These cannons throw out HEAVY lead at dam high velocities. Prior to buying my 460 I spent much time researching and shooting a fellow club members' .50 S&W 4" bbl version and I came to the conclusion that a 4" .50 S&W is simply PAINFULL to shoot, and almost impossible to target shoot consecutive shots with reasonable accuracy. I prefer longer distances I typically shoot target only at 100 yds, and 200 meters. So I chose the 12" bbl 460XVR added a Burris 3-12X scope. I handload so I initially loaded up mild 250 gr SWCGC's for the first week of shooting practice just to get a comfortable feel. My pistol is about 6 lbs so the recoil is respectively more mild that the <8" variants. I also only single loaded rounds for the first few weeks as I was fearfully of a accidental double tap. Now months later I have little fear and am confident in my hold. I'm not a big guy either and I've learned to not fight the recoil but control and decelerate it. I mostly shoot bench off a rest or a bipod, but when shooting offhand(s) I use my shotgun trap type stance and I seem to maintain comfortable balance right through the recoil. I'm good for about 15 full power rounds then my wrists have had enough. Once I feel some pain, that's the # 1 sign it's time to pack the cannon and head home. I go through a detailed instruction before letting anyone shoot my 460, firm hold, weight forward, ONE round only in the cylinder, and keep your left hand fingers/thumb away from the cyl gap !!!!! I see the semi-auto guys sometimes start to do this type of hold and I put an immediate stop to this and explain the correct safe hold. These are strictly my opinions on how I've learned to shoot my 460, YMMV