.500 S&W Incident - Anybody heard of this?

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Kapp

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Last weekend several of us went down to my range to shoot a big .500 S&W. My brother-in-law was the first to shoot. He loaded 5 rounds of Magtech factory ammo. When he pulled the trigger, everybody knew something had happened. The gun had doubled - two rounds went off faster than you can fire a semi-auto. He looked at me and I looked down at the gun expecting to see a blown topstrap - but nothing was wrong. We stopped and opened the gun - two rounds fired. We were sort of stunned by what happened, but we shot it some more. No other incidents. The only explanation I can come up with is that he was squeezing so tight that recoil from the first round was enough to cycle the action that quickly - though the two shots were closer together than any double-tap I've ever heard.


Any thoughts?


Kapp
 
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There is a video out on the internet documenting the same kind of incident. A girl was shooting a 500 and the same thing occurred.

She had apparently never shot anything like it before. A group of very unusual factors contributed to the gun recycling and firing a second round so quickly you can't differentiate between the first and second shots. Her grip, the recoil, the raise of the gun -- an extraordinary chain of events all contributed to the incident... I don't have the web address or I'd post it...

No damage to the shooter, the gun or spectators. Those of us who own one can imagine the feel of the recoil of a 500 double cycling like that...:)
 
Documented occurrence with the .500. Apparently has to do with the gun/trigger being gripped tightly, and the recoil and roll of the gun under the right conditions.

Youtube has several examples - I think THIS ONE is the one referred to above . . . .
 
Basically, it's a "bump fire". What happens is the recoil drive the gun back into the hand, the trigger resets, and then the shooter squeezes down because he/she feels they are losing control. That second squeeze being instinctive is with all the fingers, so the trigger gets "pulled" a second time. IMO anyone new to any of the Magnums should have only one round loaded into the cylinder for their first shot or three.

Fact is I fully expect that someday one of these IGNORANT "jokers" will end up killing their wife/girlfriend/or buddy pulling this stunt. Quite simply the Magnums need to be worked up to, not handed to someone just to see their reaction.

BTW, when someone finally does shoot themselves in the head because of this STUPID IGNORANT stunt, I fully expect that the gunmaker will get the blame and face a lawsuit over it. Then we will all get to read about how unsafe revolvers are and how easily they can be converted to "machine guns" by our noble media who is obviously totally impartial (HUGE SARCASM HERE, I have ZERO respect for the media in the US today).
 
I've never seen it in person but have heard about it on several occasions. Loading only one round in the cylinder is not a good practice unless the remaining cylinders are loaded with empties because of the back thrust on the recoil shield.
Any time a new shooters decides they want to shoot one of my 500's I load one round and back it up with empties, without them knowing. It does two things. It eliminates the possibility of a double tap and it lets me see just how bad they flinch on the second shot. If they decide they still want to shoot it, we go over the precautions again and I fill the cylinder and tell them to have fun and hang on!
 
scooter123 said:
Fact is I fully expect that someday one of these IGNORANT "jokers" will end up killing their wife/girlfriend/or buddy pulling this stunt. Quite simply the Magnums need to be worked up to, not handed to someone just to see their reaction.

BTW, when someone finally does shoot themselves in the head because of this STUPID IGNORANT stunt, I fully expect that the gunmaker will get the blame and face a lawsuit over it. Then we will all get to read about how unsafe revolvers are and how easily they can be converted to "machine guns" by our noble media who is obviously totally impartial (HUGE SARCASM HERE, I have ZERO respect for the media in the US today).
Click to expand...

Well written and unfortunately all too likely to occur. I'm in your camp with regard to disliking the media. Don
 
Dam! I watched that video and am impressed. I can see the chain of factors, tight grip, gun recoiling enough to reset the lockwork and pressure still on the trigger.
What I found odd was the tag underneath:
Skinny little girl can't handle the recoil
I think she did an excellent job of handling a double from a .500, probably better than I would have. She's a tough one in my book.
Never shot one, have no desire to.
Years ago I worked at a shop that handloaded, we worked up a load in a .45-70 contender but no one wanted to shoot it across the chrony, since it wasn't my Chrony I did, that thing, 405g bullet, pegged near 1350fps. i almost lost the gun. Got a good laugh and then a big ol' guy, as in 'big like well fed', shot it. The spur from the trigger gaurd tore open the backside of all his fingers.
No one else wanted anything to do with it after that.
RD
 
ohiococonut said:
I've never seen it in person but have heard about it on several occasions. Loading only one round in the cylinder is not a good practice unless the remaining cylinders are loaded with empties because of the back thrust on the recoil shield.
Any time a new shooters decides they want to shoot one of my 500's I load one round and back it up with empties, without them knowing. It does two things. It eliminates the possibility of a double tap and it lets me see just how bad they flinch on the second shot. If they decide they still want to shoot it, we go over the precautions again and I fill the cylinder and tell them to have fun and hang on!
Click to expand...

Interesting. Never thought of that. Is that only on a 500 or would that have merit on a .44 Mag as well?
 
Kapp said:
Last weekend several of us went down to my range to shoot a big .500 S&W. My brother-in-law was the first to shoot. He loaded 5 rounds of Magtech factory ammo. When he pulled the trigger, everybody knew something had happened. The gun had doubled - two rounds went off faster than you can fire a semi-auto. He looked at me and I looked down at the gun expecting to see a blown topstrap - but nothing was wrong. We stopped and opened the gun - two rounds fired. We were sort of stunned by what happened, but we shot it some more. No other incidents. The only explanation I can come up with is that he was squeezing so tight that recoil from the first round was enough to cycle the action that quickly - though the two shots were closer together than any double-tap I've ever heard.


Any thoughts?


Kapp
Click to expand...

I have a friend who has a .500 and it has happened to him.
He is an avid/long time shooter, so it can`t be blamed on lack of training or experience.
 
Tempest 455 said:
Interesting. Never thought of that. Is that only on a 500 or would that have merit on a .44 Mag as well?
Click to expand...

I personally have never heard of such. I think there is a "threshold" of recoil violence/impulse that is reached by the .500 that makes this happen that isn't reached by the 44 unless the normal mechanisms have been tampered with.
 
jack oconnor said:
I have a friend who has a .500 and it has happened to him.
He is an avid/long time shooter, so it can`t be blamed on lack of training or experience.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's a save assumption to make in regards to the 500 Magnum. I've been shooting since the mid 70's and I know quite well I'm not up to what this caliber demands. Fact is the 500 Magnum can match the muzzle energy of the 45/70 in some loads and the 45/70 is a bit of a beast in a rifle. If your friend has been shooting something like the 45ACP he is NOT prepared to take on the 500.
 
I don't know about the factors involved in the "doubling" incident. I do know that I have been shooting for 40+ years, including heavily loaded .44 mags in both single and double action revolvers and T/C Contenders, but this is another level altogether. I told the owner of the .500 that I don't care to shoot it again. These days a .44 Spl. is fun - a heavy load in a .357 is OK. We shot 15 rounds out of a 25 round box that cost 50.00. I think I shot 3 of them. I got my six dollar's worth and then some for sure.
It was an experience, but I can't say that I enjoyed it. To each his own.

Kapp
 
NFrameFred said:
I personally have never heard of such. I think there is a "threshold" of recoil violence/impulse that is reached by the .500 that makes this happen that isn't reached by the 44 unless the normal mechanisms have been tampered with.
Click to expand...

Which tells me you just haven't pushed the envelope far enough :D



WARNING-joke alert-just trying to be funny-don't do this at home-I do not advocate reckless reloading- oh hell.....nevermind
 
CAJUNLAWYER said:
Which tells me you just haven't pushed the envelope far enough :D



WARNING-joke alert-just trying to be funny-don't do this at home-I do not advocate reckless reloading- oh hell.....nevermind
Click to expand...

Well, Caj, I used to shoot with a guy who's 44 reloads would exhibit erased head stamps after about the third loading . . . I gave him plenty of room on the range . . . . :D
 
I do not have to touch a red hot horse shoe fresh out of the fire to know that it is hot.
Lordy---I don't EVEN want to TALK about shooting that thing.
Blessings
 
Here is a slow motion video of a 500 being fired in a scientific manner. In the video you can see the gun moving back in the hand almost to the point where the trigger resets. It's very easy to imagine someone with a loose grip having a 500 move far enough back in the hand upon firing where the trigger resets and the action is cycled.

YouTube - ‪S&W 500 magnum slow motion (cylinder gap)‬‏
 
I had the same occurance with a from a friends .45 1911. A combination of extremely light trigger pull and the recoil set off a second rounds and the second round hit the over head lights.
 
I had this happen once with a Glock 23. It was a hot day and I was having trouble hanging onto the slippery plastic gun. Had my trigger finger pretty far into the trigger guard and I blame that for the double.
 
I only saw this happen once and I am still scared of going to the range with anyone (public and LEOs). Miami June 1985. A guy had just purchased an Auto Ordnance full size 1911 and went to the range to “practice”. First round went down range the other six went everywhere. My range bag stopped a ricochet inches from my head. Ten people in the range diving for cover and luckily no one was hurt.

Training does not always solve stupidity. Miami June 1989. MDPD range with some Coast Guard rookies straight out of boot. The guy to the right of me had his newly issued M9 jamb. Before the range was cleared, he turned and walked up to me for help discharging the “jammed” round between my legs.
 
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