Brand New 629...90 Rounds Results in cylinder damage/galling.

peppercorn · Nov 26, 2011

This report comes as a mixed bag with both the positive and the negative. So lets start with the positive.
My new 629 3'' shoots better than I would have ever bet on, guessed or imagined it would. I shot a total of 90 rounds this past Tuesday, the first 25 or so fired from a bench rest while I adjusted the sights for windage. Once it was sighted in I went to work seeing just how well I could shoot this flame throwing beast. One of my targets is pictured below.

On the negative side of the equation is the damage to the cylinder I noticed once I was home and was getting ready to clean it.
I fired a total of 50 rounds of Magnum ammo and 40 rounds of special. All ammo was factory.
Does anyone else have this type of galling on the cylinder of their .44 mags?
Do I just keep shooting it, send it back to S&W or...?
I have a Model 29-2 that shows no sign of this at all.

Thanks for any and all input.

All six showed galling, this one was the worst.

Not to leave on a negative note I saved the positive for the last.

Hondo44 · Nov 26, 2011

Explanation:
That's called peening and is more prevalent on SS guns because S&W's stainless is a fairly soft alloy. But it also happens to carbon steel guns and is not abnormal in minor amounts.

Diagnosis:
Yours seems to be slightly excessive on the one notch. I think your cylinder hand is slightly to long causing it to advance the cylinder too soon before the stop clears the notch. Can you feel a little hitch when you fire it double action?

Solution:
Check for a super sharp edge or burr on the stop that aligns with the peening marks. Have the timing checked.

RIDE-RED 350r · Nov 26, 2011

I have put about 150 rds through my new 629-6 Classic. So far I have discovered none of what you are experiencing....FWIW

scooter123 · Nov 26, 2011

I see only one image that is at all concerning, that is the top image. It appears that particular stop notch is peened slightly on the face opposite the lead in.

There are 2 possible causes for peening this face of the stop notch. One is a lot of rapid fire shooting typical to what is seen it some types of competitive shooting and it takes a lot of rounds downrange for this to become noticeable.

The other is when the gun fires with the cylinder just shy of the stop dropping into the notch. What happens in this case is that when the fired bullet hits the forcing cone it will cause the cylinder to rotate violently due to the "centering" action of the bullet hitting the forcing cone. The major cause of this is a timing fault called "failure to carry up". The minor cause is staging the trigger in double action, a practice that S&W discourages in the owners manual. If you pull the trigger in one complete motion when shooting in double action the inertia of the rotating cylinder will carry it into full lock even if it does fail to carry up properly in a carry up test.

At this point your damage is so minor that I don't see any need to have the cylinder replaced. However, I believe that you should test for carry up and send your 629 into S&W if you find you have a failure to carry up. I will also discourage you from staging the trigger in double action because in time simple wear will cause carry up issues to reappear. In addition, in real Combat it's not how you would use a double action trigger and I'm a believer in training how you might have to shoot if the need to defend yourself should occur.

Testing for carry up is rather simple. Put some snap caps that measure at the same diameter as a properly size round or sized empty casings in the cyliner. Then pull the trigger in double action using a super slow motion trigger pull. Listen for the cylinder stop to drop before the hammer falls. BTW, you may need to use two fingers on the trigger to pull it slowly enough. If you find a cchamber or two where the stop doesn't drop in before hammer fall, mark them with a sharpie marker or the like. In this case peening the ratchet pall for the offending cylinder position(s) is the solution. If you find carryup problems on every chamber position, a thicker hand is the fix. Since these require "touch" and some fitting, it's not a kitchen table fix so let the warranty center do the work.

I'll also note that failures to carry up with a left handed trigger pull is typical to the S&W lockwork, so typical that it's uncommon to NOT find carry up issues with the left hand. In addition, trying to achieve perfect carry up for left handed shooters usually results in a slight Hand/Cylinder bind on those guns when used right handed. Rumor has it that the Floating Hand was an attempt to correct the left hand carry up issues that didn't succeed. The simple fact is the lockwork in a S&W is right handed to a slight extent and lefties should make it a habit to NEVER stage their trigger.

Jitterbug · Nov 26, 2011

My new 4" 629-6 is doing the same thing, plus it hangs up on two cylinders when unlocking the cylinder.

The first 200 rounds through the gun were very, very mild 240 grain LSWC doing about 850 fps. I fired them double action.

I had two local gunsmiths take a look at it and the first thing one of them said are you firing SA or DA, when I said DA, he just nodded and indicated it was more or less normal.

I'm going to be sending the gun back to S&W soon to have them repair the cylinder catch issue as well as take a look at the peening.

One smith said the cylinder "catching" was due to an out of round hole at the end of the ejector rod. The other said it was due to rough ratchets.

Right handed by the way and I was "staging" the trigger.

team sidewinder · Nov 26, 2011

My new 629-6 does the same thing and thought at first maybe it was that way when I got it but just hadn't noticed it. Glad you asked the question. Let us know if you do send it back and what S&W does about it. I only have 20 - 30 rounds through mine so far. I really like this gun and hope it doesn't get to the point where I have to send it back just when I need to be carring it during shed antler hunting in the spring. Is my only S&W pistol a piece of ____ ? Hope not as I really defended the S&W to a friend who tried to steer me onto a Ruger. If they are all this way isn't going to make me feel any better about this condition either.

trukreltrog · Nov 26, 2011

That's a sexy beast pepper, how ya been?

Sorry, have nothing to add to this. I have two 629-4's, they are doing this a little. Not as bad as yours though, good luck with it mang.

ETA: great pics as per usual,,,

lscocoa · Nov 26, 2011

Wow ! Nice gun, good group . My 629-4 w/ 8 3/8 " barrel is doing the same and I only see it on the stainless guns but I would'nt worry about it.

peppercorn · Nov 26, 2011

Hondo44 said:
Explanation:
That's called peening and is more prevalent on SS guns because S&W's stainless is a fairly soft alloy. But it also happens to carbon steel guns and is not abnormal in minor amounts.

Diagnosis:
Yours seems to be slightly excessive on the one notch. I think your cylinder hand is slightly to long causing it to advance the cylinder too soon before the stop clears the notch. Can you feel a little hitch when you fire it double action?

Solution:
Check for a super sharp edge or burr on the stop that aligns with the peening marks. Have the timing checked.

I am not feeling any 'hitch' in DA 'dry' firing(with snap caps).

scooter123 said:
I see only one image that is at all concerning, that is the top image. It appears that particular stop notch is peened slightly on the face opposite the lead in.

There are 2 possible causes for peening this face of the stop notch. One is a lot of rapid fire shooting typical to what is seen it some types of competitive shooting and it takes a lot of rounds downrange for this to become noticeable.

The other is when the gun fires with the cylinder just shy of the stop dropping into the notch. What happens in this case is that when the fired bullet hits the forcing cone it will cause the cylinder to rotate violently due to the "centering" action of the bullet hitting the forcing cone. The major cause of this is a timing fault called "failure to carry up". The minor cause is staging the trigger in double action, a practice that S&W discourages in the owners manual. If you pull the trigger in one complete motion when shooting in double action the inertia of the rotating cylinder will carry it into full lock even if it does fail to carry up properly in a carry up test.

At this point your damage is so minor that I don't see any need to have the cylinder replaced. However, I believe that you should test for carry up and send your 629 into S&W if you find you have a failure to carry up. I will also discourage you from staging the trigger in double action because in time simple wear will cause carry up issues to reappear. In addition, in real Combat it's not how you would use a double action trigger and I'm a believer in training how you might have to shoot if the need to defend yourself should occur.

Testing for carry up is rather simple. Put some snap caps that measure at the same diameter as a properly size round or sized empty casings in the cyliner. Then pull the trigger in double action using a super slow motion trigger pull. Listen for the cylinder stop to drop before the hammer falls. BTW, you may need to use two fingers on the trigger to pull it slowly enough. If you find a cchamber or two where the stop doesn't drop in before hammer fall, mark them with a sharpie marker or the like. In this case peening the ratchet pall for the offending cylinder position(s) is the solution. If you find carryup problems on every chamber position, a thicker hand is the fix. Since these require "touch" and some fitting, it's not a kitchen table fix so let the warranty center do the work.

I'll also note that failures to carry up with a left handed trigger pull is typical to the S&W lockwork, so typical that it's uncommon to NOT find carry up issues with the left hand. In addition, trying to achieve perfect carry up for left handed shooters usually results in a slight Hand/Cylinder bind on those guns when used right handed. Rumor has it that the Floating Hand was an attempt to correct the left hand carry up issues that didn't succeed. The simple fact is the lockwork in a S&W is right handed to a slight extent and lefties should make it a habit to NEVER stage their trigger.

I only fired the 629 SA.
I had been practicing rapid doubles in DA, no staging, with my model 19 prior to firing the 629 and found the difference in trigger pull dramatic enough to just stick with SA for the first outing with the .44.
Also, I added a photo above to show the stop.

I will try the carry up test above following the description and using snap caps as you suggest.

Jitterbug said:
My new 4" 629-6 is doing the same thing, plus it hangs up on two cylinders when unlocking the cylinder.

The first 200 rounds through the gun were very, very mild 240 grain LSWC doing about 850 fps. I fired them double action.

I had two local gunsmiths take a look at it and the first thing one of them said are you firing SA or DA, when I said DA, he just nodded and indicated it was more or less normal.

I'm going to be sending the gun back to S&W soon to have them repair the cylinder catch issue as well as take a look at the peening.

One smith said the cylinder "catching" was due to an out of round hole at the end of the ejector rod. The other said it was due to rough ratchets.

Right handed by the way and I was "staging" the trigger.

team sidewinder said:
My new 629-6 does the same thing and thought at first maybe it was that way when I got it but just hadn't noticed it. Glad you asked the question. Let us know if you do send it back and what S&W does about it. I only have 20 - 30 rounds through mine so far. I really like this gun and hope it doesn't get to the point where I have to send it back just when I need to be carring it during shed antler hunting in the spring. Is my only S&W pistol a piece of ____ ? Hope not as I really defended the S&W to a friend who tried to steer me onto a Ruger. If they are all this way isn't going to make me feel any better about this condition either.

trukreltrog said:
That's a sexy beast pepper, how ya been?

Sorry, have nothing to add to this. I have two 629-4's, they are doing this a little. Not as bad as yours though, good luck with it mang.

ETA: great pics as per usual,,,

Good to see you 'trog, it's been a long while.

lscocoa said:
Wow ! Nice gun, good group . My 629-4 w/ 8 3/8 " barrel is doing the same and I only see it on the stainless guns but I would'nt worry about it.

Thanks for the input everyone.
I added a photo of the stop if that helps at all.

AKsRule · Nov 26, 2011

I have never experienced damage like that on a S&W.

I own 10 pre-lock S&Ws ( all bought used ) and none show any "peening".

Firing 90 rounds of factory ammo should not cause that.

My thought is that your 629 is slightly out of time AND the locking bolt is dragging.

I would send it back and demand a new cylinder.

.

scooter123 · Nov 26, 2011

One other thought occured to me concerning carry up. That is that a very tight Barrel/Cylinder gap could create enough drag to cause carry up issues due to fouling on the face of the cylinder. I would suggest that you check your B/C gap to see if yours is a bit too tight. Personally, I consider 0.005 to 0.006 inch to be ideal and 0.004 to be the margin for correction. While that is admittedly a bit conservative I prefer a bit more gas loss in the B/C gap over optimized potential accuracy with a tighter gap. While a tight B/C gap can improve accuracy I just don't think a minor increase in accuracy potential is worth the cost of possible timing issues that a dragging cylinder can cause.

Since you were shooting in single action, checking for a tight B/C gap is one thing you'll want to check before sending it in so that issue can be corrected at the same time they are dealing with your timing fault.

W.E.G. · Nov 26, 2011

What's the rush on the send-back?

If that's just break-in wear, and the gun functions normally otherwise, are you really going to send it back for something of such a minor cosmetic nature?

No safe queens.

scooter123 · Nov 26, 2011

If you had just purchase a new car and one wheel wobbled around all caddywompous wouldn't you take it in to get it fixed. On a new revolver that has only been shot in single action a peened cylinder stop notch is an indication of a functional deficit in carry up. Better to have that fixed quickly than wait until some real damage has been done.

jspick · Nov 27, 2011

I have seen peening more times than not, even on my 617. I THINK there are several reasons for that. Like has been said already.

I personally think it is not a soft alloy but when you pull the trigger upon firing the hand pushes on the ratchets a little more and any inperfection in the notch will be pushed out against the side of the notch. Just my inexperianced thought. It does not affect my guns in any other way.

John

2hawk · Nov 27, 2011

This thread got me curious, so I looked at four or five of my stainless guns. They've all been shot, and they all exhibit some degree of peening, similar to whats been shown in the photos. Usually there's one notch that shows a little more peening, and this seems consistent with all of my guns.

I've noticed this previously, and I put in the same catagory as flame cutting- if you shoot your guns, it happens. If it does not seem to get worse, and does not affect funtion or accuracy, then I don't consider it a problem.

Mechanical devices with metal on metal moving parts can be expected to show some wear, just the nature of the beast. IMHO, ymmv, etc.

surfgun · Nov 27, 2011

My 629 from the 90's, did the same thing. Break-in wear. On S&W's this is not unusual.

team sidewinder · Nov 27, 2011

WHEW!!!! Glad to hear is a normal thing. This 629 is my only revolver so am new to the ins and outs of it. Have only had semi-auto pistols before. Thanks for the input guys even though I didn't ask this question originally.

one eye joe · Jan 22, 2012

AKsRule said:
I have never experienced damage like that on a S&W.

I own 10 pre-lock S&Ws ( all bought used ) and none show any "peening".

Firing 90 rounds of factory ammo should not cause that.

My thought is that your 629 is slightly out of time AND the locking bolt is dragging.

I would send it back and demand a new cylinder.

.

On a brand new revolver, I would agree....

Wayne M · Jan 22, 2012

Maybe I just can't see the pictures real well but that looks like a lead build up from soft lead bullets. Lead round nose 44 Specials perhaps? If you're using a premium 44 Special with a jacketed bullet of some kind you're ok but lead factory Specials can be really nasty. Did you fire the Specials last?

notsofast · Jan 22, 2012

scooter123 said:
I see only one image that is at all concerning, that is the top image. It appears that particular stop notch is peened slightly on the face opposite the lead in.

There are 2 possible causes for peening this face of the stop notch. One is a lot of rapid fire shooting typical to what is seen it some types of competitive shooting and it takes a lot of rounds downrange for this to become noticeable.

The other is when the gun fires with the cylinder just shy of the stop dropping into the notch. What happens in this case is that when the fired bullet hits the forcing cone it will cause the cylinder to rotate violently due to the "centering" action of the bullet hitting the forcing cone. The major cause of this is a timing fault called "failure to carry up". The minor cause is staging the trigger in double action, a practice that S&W discourages in the owners manual. If you pull the trigger in one complete motion when shooting in double action the inertia of the rotating cylinder will carry it into full lock even if it does fail to carry up properly in a carry up test.

At this point your damage is so minor that I don't see any need to have the cylinder replaced. However, I believe that you should test for carry up and send your 629 into S&W if you find you have a failure to carry up. I will also discourage you from staging the trigger in double action because in time simple wear will cause carry up issues to reappear. In addition, in real Combat it's not how you would use a double action trigger and I'm a believer in training how you might have to shoot if the need to defend yourself should occur.

Testing for carry up is rather simple. Put some snap caps that measure at the same diameter as a properly size round or sized empty casings in the cyliner. Then pull the trigger in double action using a super slow motion trigger pull. Listen for the cylinder stop to drop before the hammer falls. BTW, you may need to use two fingers on the trigger to pull it slowly enough. If you find a cchamber or two where the stop doesn't drop in before hammer fall, mark them with a sharpie marker or the like. In this case peening the ratchet pall for the offending cylinder position(s) is the solution. If you find carryup problems on every chamber position, a thicker hand is the fix. Since these require "touch" and some fitting, it's not a kitchen table fix so let the warranty center do the work.

I'll also note that failures to carry up with a left handed trigger pull is typical to the S&W lockwork, so typical that it's uncommon to NOT find carry up issues with the left hand. In addition, trying to achieve perfect carry up for left handed shooters usually results in a slight Hand/Cylinder bind on those guns when used right handed. Rumor has it that the Floating Hand was an attempt to correct the left hand carry up issues that didn't succeed. The simple fact is the lockwork in a S&W is right handed to a slight extent and lefties should make it a habit to NEVER stage their trigger.

What is meant by "stageing the trigger"?

Brand New 629...90 Rounds Results in cylinder damage/galling.

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