Timing issue and bulged cylinder chamber

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tguil

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I have made several posts about how a factory +p .38 special load bulged one of the cylinder chambers on my 1984 Model 36. Finally found a like new blue cylinder and am having it installed by a local smith who is very good with S&W's. He has determined that he needs a new hand to get the timing right with the replacement cylinder. In making the change he found that the original cylinder was out of time from the factory. Could this have been at least part of the cause for the bulged cylinder chamber?

As an aside, he has had the gun for quite a while looking for a new oversize hand. Any suggestions other than Gunbroker?
 
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If he's much of a gunsmith, he ought to know where to find an oversized hand and how to "stretch" the standard one. IIRC Brownell's offers the hand, if he doesn't have another source.

Froggie
 
Green Frog said:
If he's much of a gunsmith, he ought to know where to find an oversized hand and how to "stretch" the standard one. IIRC Brownell's offers the hand, if he doesn't have another source.

Froggie
Click to expand...

Mostly I think he is looking for an excuse for not having the gun back to me. He preferred not to stretch the hand that is in the gun. These guys tend to take their time. He is noted as a very good smith, but a slow one. I think I'll call him again on Monday.
 
If he's talking about stretching a S&W hand, he's not much of a gunsmith.

Colt revolvers are re-timed by stretching the hand.
S&W revolvers are re-timed by installing a THICKER hand.

In order to cause a bulged, cracked, or blown chamber the gun would have to be so far out of time or alignment that the bullet would have to be almost entirely off the barrel, in which case you'd have bullet metal smeared all the way down the front of the frame and impacted into the areas around the rear of the barrel.....Hard to miss this.

What causes bulged or otherwise damaged chambers is overloaded ammo or a bullet stuck in the barrel throat so close to the cylinder face that the pressure can't escape fast enough when the next round is fired.
Another cause is firing +P or +P+ ammo in a gun not rated for it. I'm not sure if the standard 1984 Model 36 was factory rated or not.

If not, this may be one of those cases of people saying that +P ammo isn't that hot and the cautions about not using it in some guns is nothing but lawyer BS.
Sometimes the factory is right and it's not lawyer BS.

Most common cause: Overloaded ammo.
 
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^^^^^^^

Absolutely correct on almost all points. A bullet stuck anywhere in the barrel will result in a bulged barrel, it will not cause a bulged cylinder. Chances are if it was in the throat just far enough to allow the cylinder to turn it would either push the first bullet out without damage or simply stop behind it.

What causes bulged barrels from a stuck bullet is the energy from the impact, not an increase in the pressure of powder gasses from the extra bullet weight.

There is one, and only one, thing that causes bulged or ruptured cylinders, and that is grossly excessive pressure from overloaded ammunition. Factory +P .38 Special is not loaded to the pressure of .38 Special proof loads. While it is possible that a factory loaded cartridge had a double charge, but not likely. The person who is making this claim is simply making excuses for his own stupidity that damaged the revolver.
 
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Alk8944 said:
^^^^^^^
 The person who is making this claim is simply making excuses for his own stupidity that damaged the revolver.
Click to expand...

No excuses. Not stupidity....honest mistake. The ammunition that I used was purchased probably about 1990. It was Winchester-Western 38 Special 158 gr. Semi-Wad Cutter +P (X38WCP). The box had never been opened. I didn't notice the +P on the box before I loaded the gun...a mistake, not stupidity. There's a difference.

I still am trying to figure out how this one round could cause a slight bulge in a cylinder chamber. Guess timing has nothing to do with it.
 
The usual cause is reloaded ammo with an overcharged case.

In your case, the rare and seldom confirmed cause may have been
a factory overcharged case.

The other possible scenario is that the chamber had been bulged previous to your shooting session with the factory rnds.

Plus-P is extremely unlikely as the cause of the bulge.

Elmer Keith experimented with extreme loads in an early 36, stated
no adverse effects from firing many rnds.

Also rare and almost never confirmed is a possible flaw in that chamber.

In any case, fix her and enjoy your refreshed snubby ;)
 
tguil said:
I have made several posts about how a factory +p .38 special load bulged one of the cylinder chambers on my 1984 Model 36. Finally found a like new blue cylinder and am having it installed by a local smith who is very good with S&W's. He has determined that he needs a new hand to get the timing right with the replacement cylinder. In making the change he found that the original cylinder was out of time from the factory. Could this have been at least part of the cause for the bulged cylinder chamber?

As an aside, he has had the gun for quite a while looking for a new oversize hand. Any suggestions other than Gunbroker?
Click to expand...

I would assume that the "local smith" would know that a DCU issue is solved by a wider hand, not a longer hand.

Also, why not just order the correct wider hand from S&W or Midway or Brownells or Jack First? Are you sure the "local smith" has much experience with S&W revolvers?

With overnight shipping, your revolver could have been properly gone over by a real "smith" at Smith & Wesson and been back to you by now.

It is a continuous mystery to me why S&W is not regarded by many as the way to go when repairing an S&W.

I can sort of understand about using the "local smith" when revolvers had to go back to S&W by railway express or pony express or whatever, but with overnight shipping, there is just almost no excuse for letting the "local smith" screw up a perfectly good revolver because he really does not know what he is doing.
 
It was my misunderstanding about the hand. The smith simply said he wanted to use and oversize hand.

My original plan was to have S&W work on the gun but they would not because they no longer have the cylinders for this vintage revolver available. Cylinder and Slide told me to find a replacement cylinder and they would do an installation.

The local smith has a reputation for very good work.

Didn't think this question would cause such interest and negativity.
 
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tguil said:
No excuses. Not stupidity....honest mistake. The ammunition that I used was purchased probably about 1990. It was Winchester-Western 38 Special 158 gr. Semi-Wad Cutter +P (X38WCP). The box had never been opened. I didn't notice the +P on the box before I loaded the gun...a mistake, not stupidity. There's a difference.

I still am trying to figure out how this one round could cause a slight bulge in a cylinder chamber. Guess timing has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

tguil,

Am apology to you. By the time I had gotten through several replies I was working on "I know someone who says.......", not that it was your gun and your experience!

The basic answer is still the same though. A rare factory overload, someone slipped a hot reload into a box of factory ammunition in the store before you bought it, or these were someones handloads represented as factory ammunition. Real hard to know which after they have been fired. A Factory +P load did not damage your gun unless the cartridge was defective.
 
A friend bought a new 637, we fired it at the range, new ammo, I reload and found when examining the cases that 6 of them were split full length. Gun was sent back to factory where they replaced the cylinder. The split cases were sent along with the firearm. One of those holes was out of spec. Some do leave the factory with problems. If it was test fired, I can't figure why this wasn't caught.
 
Coaltminer said:
If it was test fired, I can't figure why this wasn't caught.
Click to expand...

Traditionally, S&W fires three rounds out of 5 and 6 shot revolvers. Whether that's the current procedure, I don't know.

BTW:Even Glock messed up chambering (in the throat area) on several thousand pistols in the late eighties. Relied too much on the CNC, so no bore guides were used on the chambering reamers. Got a bunch so offset that function was compromised. Still passed proof and got out to the retail market. Just one of those things.
 
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