What's the correct Naval Aviatior revolver?

Joe F

Joe F

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I'm a retired Navy helicopter pilot ('86-'06) curious to find out what gun I would have been issued IF they ever issued one to me. There was a gun pocket in our survival vest that was clearly designed for a short barreled revolver. I know the gunner's mates had guns for us, but I never actually saw one. As I recall, the GM's hated the pilot guns because they were an oddball that they were stuck cleaning, maintaining and accounting for. As a funny side note, the times that we carried firearms during Desert Storm, we opted to throw an M14 in the back rather than carrying handguns.
 
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Joe, welcome aboard!
When I was deployed on the carrier (F-14s) and we were carrying sidearms, the pilots pretty much carried their own. The ordies never issued anything to us. Many carried their own 1911's. I saw all manner of sidearms stuck into vests...Pythons, 686s, BHPs, Berettas, etc. The guns were also locked in the little safes each officer had in his stateroom. Probably not according to regulations, but you know how that goes.
 
Your choice of grabbing an M-14 and forgoing the pistol was what we used to call very smart.

As the gunnery officer in USS Iwo Jima (LPH-2) in the earliest part of my career (mid-1970's) I carried several S&W Victory .38 Specials for issue to our (that is, the Navy) aviators who were members of ship's company. When the Marines came aboard they had their own stuff to issue the air wing pilots. The one air winger I saw armed had a 1911A1.

As the gunnery officer I also had custody of forty-two 1911A1s of various makes (I recall that the US&S guns had by far the best workmanship), a dozen or more M-14s, two M-2 rifles for match work (Garands adapted to 7.62 NATO), riot guns (mostly 12 gauge Remington 870's but one Winchester M12 trench gun with handguard, bayonet lug, etc.), maybe 4 match-conditioned 1911A1s (done up by NAD Crane, Indiana), four Colt Ace pistols (Parkerized IIRC), and several Ma Duce .50s. The Thompsons all got turned in a year or two before I reported aboard.

Later, when I was on a fixed wing carrier (USS Franklin D. Roosevelt, CV-42) the air wing pilots and NFOs I knew well had their own pistols. The Browning Hi Power was a popular choice.

After 40 years that's all I can remember (about what was in the armory back then, I mean. I actually remembered where I left my car keys earlier today).

I'm on the cusp of geezerhood. Near the end of my career in the 90's I stopped at Naval Station Philadelphia to see a shipmate and had the mixed pleasure of looking out on three of the ships in which I served in mothballs, grey and very quiet, no constant thrum or murmur of life as in an active ship. Walked aboard one. Felt old. Didn't look back when I walked off.
 
DR505 said:
Joe, welcome aboard!
When I was deployed on the carrier (F-14s) and we were carrying sidearms, the pilots pretty much carried their own. The ordies never issued anything to us. Many carried their own 1911's. I saw all manner of sidearms stuck into vests...Pythons, 686s, BHPs, Berettas, etc. The guns were also locked in the little safes each officer had in his stateroom. Probably not according to regulations, but you know how that goes.
Click to expand...

Funny you say that, because I figured if I needed a handgun, I'd persuade them to give me a .45 and then I'd figure out a place to stuff it. I actually thought about bringing my own gun, but there was no way I'd get away with hiding it on a destroyer (I was a LAMPS guy) and turning it over to the GM's probably wasn't a good idea.

I kinda have an itch to get another wheel gun, which is why I'm asking. I like guns that have personal or historical connection.
 
The Marine Naval Aviators in our squadron (mid-70's till early 80's) carried 1911's or M15's. A few carried their personal 1911 - .38 Super
 
While enjoying the coast of Lebanon during the early '80's unpleasantness I recall one enlisted Marine crew chief standing by his CH-46 wearing a Ruger Super Blackhawk in what looked like a Bianchi X-15 shoulder holster. The gun was under:

1. His Inflatable life jacket, then
2. His issue flak jacket and finally
3. His frontal body armor used in his door gunner role.

His was a big boy. Hope his bird never went in the drink wearing all that stuff. (Note: Helos don't fly; they beat the air into submission).

Regarding taking your own pistol, what I learned to do was take a few extra Colt factory magazines and a full box of milspec ammo in the little brown box. I always consider the military magazine (built by the lowest bidder) to be the weak link in 1911 performance. When going ashore in the bad place I would draw a 1911A1 from the armory, which only had 5 rounds per magazine, then go back to my stateroom and top off my 5 good magazines to a full 7 rounds. Took my ammo and mags back when the gunner's mate got his pistol returned to him. Worked OK.

Semper fi, CherryPointMarine. I spent two tours with 2d ANGLICO at Camp Lejeune during my career (1984-1986 and 1991-1994). Were you MARDET in Midway?
 
I was in a similar situation as an aircrewman in a TACAMO squadron. Our SV-2 vests had an integral holster, but we were never issued.

That said, I think the issue revolver depended upon the era, and am pretty sure there was more than one make/model distributed.
 
For "Official" issue, the list would be fairly small - a 1911A1, some variant of a K-frame S&W (including Victories and Model 15s), and later on, an M9 or M11. That's pretty much it.
 
Murdock, I served aboard the USS Franklin D Roosevelt CVA 42 from early 65 to late 67. Since i was a snipe didn't get to see what the pilots carried.But did run into a pilot friendly to answer my question. He was toting a WWII victory in 38 special. Ships armory was right above the #1 engineroom where yours truely spent many hours doings the things necessary things to make the ship go along with my brother sailors in #2,#3,and #4 enginerooms. Frank
 
Joe F said:
I'm a retired Navy helicopter pilot ('86-'06) curious to find out what gun I would have been issued IF they ever issued one to me. There was a gun pocket in our survival vest that was clearly designed for a short barreled revolver. I know the gunner's mates had guns for us, but I never actually saw one. As I recall, the GM's hated the pilot guns because they were an oddball that they were stuck cleaning, ing maintaining and accounting for. As a funny side note, the times that we carried firearms during Desert Storm, we opted to throw an M14 in the back rather than carrying handguns.
Click to expand...

I was a U.S. Army Aviator flying the AH-1S "Modernized" Cobra and we were issued an S&W M10 with fixed sights, 4" barrel and totally wimped out 130 grain FMJRN .38 spl ammo.

Never figured out WHY as an Infantry mortar gunner I was issued the 1911A1 and qualified expert with it out to 75 meters. As an Aviator (aircrew member) they seemed to think the piddling-weak "Mil-spec" .38 special round in a Model 10 was suitable. Glad I was never shot down!
 
The classic WW2 Naval Aviator sidearm was a S&W Victory model 4" .38 Spl. Many of the USN issued examples had "U.S.Navy" stamped on the topstrap. This would have been carried in a shoulder rig; mine is stamped "USN/Boyt/44" and is russet in color. The rationale for issuing revolvers rather than autoloaders was that a revolver can be reloaded using one hand (difficult with a M1911!) in the event that the other had become lost or disabled. Marines, of course, marched to their own drummers and usually carried "old slabsides", also in a shoulder holster; I once had a M7 rig dated 1945 that was marked USMC. I guess they figured that Marines would rack the slide with their teeth in the event of disability! :)

Currently, Naval Aviators draw M11 pistols (Gov't issue SIG/Sauer P228) prior to missions. I guess the huge M9 is just too big for BuAer's liking.
 
My old Navy buddy whom among other things flew out of Guadalcanal- Cactus Air Force, had 2 M&Ps that he carried. He said they tried to remove just enough cosmoline so the gun would function. He once did shot down and floated around for a day of two before being picked up.
 
not sure if it helps but my friends father carried an old 5 screw .38 snubbie. he did admit to a 5 shot hidden somewhere, a lemon squeezer, but that 6 shot was his. not sure if it was issued, but he did carry it. he did have some real ammo loaded state side and sent to him in Viet Nam. he said the weak mil-spec .38 fmjrn was dirty and way under powered. he was proud to have never had to use either one!
 
Don't forget the S&W M36's issued by the USN during the 80's. They were stamped US on the blackstrap. Some are seen on the second-hand market with the backstrap stamp modified into " Made in the USA ". They also have a lanyard loop.
 
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A 4" Victory Model (US Navy stamped) if you are a wood and forging kind of guy, or a Sig 228/M11 for your practical side. Thank you for your service!
 
I retired Navy in 2012 and after the Navy converted to the Berretta 92FS as the service weapon pilots started carrying SIG P226 as an issued weapon in hostile situations.
 
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