I'm a retired Navy helicopter pilot ('86-'06) curious to find out what gun I would have been issued IF they ever issued one to me. There was a gun pocket in our survival vest that was clearly designed for a short barreled revolver. I know the gunner's mates had guns for us, but I never actually saw one. As I recall, the GM's hated the pilot guns because they were an oddball that they were stuck cleaning, maintaining and accounting for. As a funny side note, the times that we carried firearms during Desert Storm, we opted to throw an M14 in the back rather than carrying handguns.

Joe-can't help on your question, but welcome aboard the forum. Thanks for your service.

Joe, welcome aboard!
When I was deployed on the carrier (F-14s) and we were carrying sidearms, the pilots pretty much carried their own. The ordies never issued anything to us. Many carried their own 1911's. I saw all manner of sidearms stuck into vests...Pythons, 686s, BHPs, Berettas, etc. The guns were also locked in the little safes each officer had in his stateroom. Probably not according to regulations, but you know how that goes.

Your choice of grabbing an M-14 and forgoing the pistol was what we used to call very smart.

As the gunnery officer in USS Iwo Jima (LPH-2) in the earliest part of my career (mid-1970's) I carried several S&W Victory .38 Specials for issue to our (that is, the Navy) aviators who were members of ship's company. When the Marines came aboard they had their own stuff to issue the air wing pilots. The one air winger I saw armed had a 1911A1.

As the gunnery officer I also had custody of forty-two 1911A1s of various makes (I recall that the US&S guns had by far the best workmanship), a dozen or more M-14s, two M-2 rifles for match work (Garands adapted to 7.62 NATO), riot guns (mostly 12 gauge Remington 870's but one Winchester M12 trench gun with handguard, bayonet lug, etc.), maybe 4 match-conditioned 1911A1s (done up by NAD Crane, Indiana), four Colt Ace pistols (Parkerized IIRC), and several Ma Duce .50s. The Thompsons all got turned in a year or two before I reported aboard.

Later, when I was on a fixed wing carrier (USS Franklin D. Roosevelt, CV-42) the air wing pilots and NFOs I knew well had their own pistols. The Browning Hi Power was a popular choice.

After 40 years that's all I can remember (about what was in the armory back then, I mean. I actually remembered where I left my car keys earlier today).

I'm on the cusp of geezerhood. Near the end of my career in the 90's I stopped at Naval Station Philadelphia to see a shipmate and had the mixed pleasure of looking out on three of the ships in which I served in mothballs, grey and very quiet, no constant thrum or murmur of life as in an active ship. Walked aboard one. Felt old. Didn't look back when I walked off.

Murdock,You are not that old. I served on the Midway, (CV-41). Now that is old !

Funny you say that, because I figured if I needed a handgun, I'd persuade them to give me a .45 and then I'd figure out a place to stuff it. I actually thought about bringing my own gun, but there was no way I'd get away with hiding it on a destroyer (I was a LAMPS guy) and turning it over to the GM's probably wasn't a good idea.

I kinda have an itch to get another wheel gun, which is why I'm asking. I like guns that have personal or historical connection.

The Marine Naval Aviators in our squadron (mid-70's till early 80's) carried 1911's or M15's. A few carried their personal 1911 - .38 Super

While enjoying the coast of Lebanon during the early '80's unpleasantness I recall one enlisted Marine crew chief standing by his CH-46 wearing a Ruger Super Blackhawk in what looked like a Bianchi X-15 shoulder holster. The gun was under:

1. His Inflatable life jacket, then
2. His issue flak jacket and finally
3. His frontal body armor used in his door gunner role.

His was a big boy. Hope his bird never went in the drink wearing all that stuff. (Note: Helos don't fly; they beat the air into submission).

Regarding taking your own pistol, what I learned to do was take a few extra Colt factory magazines and a full box of milspec ammo in the little brown box. I always consider the military magazine (built by the lowest bidder) to be the weak link in 1911 performance. When going ashore in the bad place I would draw a 1911A1 from the armory, which only had 5 rounds per magazine, then go back to my stateroom and top off my 5 good magazines to a full 7 rounds. Took my ammo and mags back when the gunner's mate got his pistol returned to him. Worked OK.

Semper fi, CherryPointMarine. I spent two tours with 2d ANGLICO at Camp Lejeune during my career (1984-1986 and 1991-1994). Were you MARDET in Midway?

I was in a similar situation as an aircrewman in a TACAMO squadron. Our SV-2 vests had an integral holster, but we were never issued.

That said, I think the issue revolver depended upon the era, and am pretty sure there was more than one make/model distributed.

I dunno... but if Naval aviators are anything like Army aviators, their guns are sure to be flashy and maintained by someone else.

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Proud anachronism

For "Official" issue, the list would be fairly small - a 1911A1, some variant of a K-frame S&W (including Victories and Model 15s), and later on, an M9 or M11. That's pretty much it.

Murdock, I served aboard the USS Franklin D Roosevelt CVA 42 from early 65 to late 67. Since i was a snipe didn't get to see what the pilots carried.But did run into a pilot friendly to answer my question. He was toting a WWII victory in 38 special. Ships armory was right above the #1 engineroom where yours truely spent many hours doings the things necessary things to make the ship go along with my brother sailors in #2,#3,and #4 enginerooms. Frank

Most Navy pilots during Vietnam carried 38s and some 1911s.

I was a U.S. Army Aviator flying the AH-1S "Modernized" Cobra and we were issued an S&W M10 with fixed sights, 4" barrel and totally wimped out 130 grain FMJRN .38 spl ammo.

Never figured out WHY as an Infantry mortar gunner I was issued the 1911A1 and qualified expert with it out to 75 meters. As an Aviator (aircrew member) they seemed to think the piddling-weak "Mil-spec" .38 special round in a Model 10 was suitable. Glad I was never shot down!

The classic WW2 Naval Aviator sidearm was a S&W Victory model 4" .38 Spl. Many of the USN issued examples had "U.S.Navy" stamped on the topstrap. This would have been carried in a shoulder rig; mine is stamped "USN/Boyt/44" and is russet in color. The rationale for issuing revolvers rather than autoloaders was that a revolver can be reloaded using one hand (difficult with a M1911!) in the event that the other had become lost or disabled. Marines, of course, marched to their own drummers and usually carried "old slabsides", also in a shoulder holster; I once had a M7 rig dated 1945 that was marked USMC. I guess they figured that Marines would rack the slide with their teeth in the event of disability!

Currently, Naval Aviators draw M11 pistols (Gov't issue SIG/Sauer P228) prior to missions. I guess the huge M9 is just too big for BuAer's liking.

My old Navy buddy whom among other things flew out of Guadalcanal- Cactus Air Force, had 2 M&Ps that he carried. He said they tried to remove just enough cosmoline so the gun would function. He once did shot down and floated around for a day of two before being picked up.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

not sure if it helps but my friends father carried an old 5 screw .38 snubbie. he did admit to a 5 shot hidden somewhere, a lemon squeezer, but that 6 shot was his. not sure if it was issued, but he did carry it. he did have some real ammo loaded state side and sent to him in Viet Nam. he said the weak mil-spec .38 fmjrn was dirty and way under powered. he was proud to have never had to use either one!

Don't forget the S&W M36's issued by the USN during the 80's. They were stamped US on the blackstrap. Some are seen on the second-hand market with the backstrap stamp modified into " Made in the USA ". They also have a lanyard loop.

A 4" Victory Model (US Navy stamped) if you are a wood and forging kind of guy, or a Sig 228/M11 for your practical side. Thank you for your service!

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I retired Navy in 2012 and after the Navy converted to the Berretta 92FS as the service weapon pilots started carrying SIG P226 as an issued weapon in hostile situations.

My uncle was a Navy cargo pilot in the late 60's early 70's. (LCDR) He had a .38 Smith...No idea what happened to it.

Losing a mortar and reverting to sidearm is much cheaper then losing a Cobra . It was your incentive to not lose the bird.

I see a lot of complaints about the M41 .38 Special round being so weak. It's really not much different from any standard .38 Special round in muzzle velocity, but it does have a lighter 130 grain FMJ bullet. It's not nearly as "weak" as most assume it to be.

One of the main functions of issuing revolvers for naval flight crews was for use as an emergency signaling device using tracer bullets, sort of a mini-flare gun.

I never saw a P226 carried by an aviator. By the late '90s just about all the airwings had switched over to the P228 / M11, though.

Take care,
Chubbs

This sounds similar to my observations in the late sixties. West Coast carrier pilots seemed to carry about what they wanted to. In the early eighties, I served in a squadron on the Ike, and all the pilots in my squadron carried either M&P or Chief's Special revolvers, Navy issue. Not sure where they kept them, but at least for a couple of years of my tour, it was within regulations to keep them in the stateroom safe. That may have changed at some time during my tour.

BTW, during the sixties, I kept three guns in a locked Pachmayr box in the ship's armory, checking them out whenever I found a place to shoot. No problems. I was enlisted at the time, and happy enough just to find the space for them!

I remember my career Marine father, now 84, complaining about the ****** .38 revolver he was issued flying H-53's out of Marble Mtn Vietnam around 1966/67 or so....

I was told once that revolvers were preferred because, if bobbing around in your life vest, you could drain the water out through the flash gap simply by pointing the gun up in the air, and then fire the gun for signaling. An autoloader had to be pointed downward, not so practical.

No personal experience...

Joe; I flew L-23, RU-8D and RU-12 for the US Army- Army Security Agency, doing airborne electronic surveillance. We pretty much carried our own side arms. I carried a Browning High Power in 9mm.

The 'Crazy Cats' flew a modified P2V and when they flew 'over the fence' in Nam there were not supposed to carry anything that said 'Made in the USA'. Took off their dog tags, carried blood chits and most carried the Belgian made B.H.P in 9mm. I still have mine.

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'I know nothing'.. Sgt. Shultz

Lots of memories from the above stories. 1965-69 Atlantic fleet mostly S&W 38 special w. tracer ammo.

I have an acquaintance who is an FBI agent and flew S-3s during ODS. We were both in the same theater but on opposite sides of the Saudi peninsula; he was in the Persian Gulf and I was in Jeddah on the Red Sea. According to him, he was issued a S&W fixed sight M&P revolver with 4 inch barrel, maybe a Model 10, perhaps a Victory model, and FMJ .38 Special ammo. The finish was a matte black, maybe parkerized. Grips were wood.
For us Air Force guys, we deployed carrying S&W Model 15s, in a mixed of 2 and 4 inch barrels. Once we got to Saudi Arabia, we traded in our revolvers for M9s.