Hey all,

I was just nosing through some of my pics and I came across one that was a M29 with what is said to be a 4 1/2 inch barrel and was Elmer Keith's favorite.

Are the 29's with the 4 1/2 inch barrel his preferred handgun that he packed every day and done most of his 44 mag shooting with? The same ones that have the Buff head carved in one side?

Does anyone have a Keith Special that they have had custom done? If so, we've gotta see that...please.

Thanks all.

Nalajr

Elmer Keith considered the 4 inch M29 as the best belt gun. Power was just right and the 4 inch doesnt push up your belt when seated. Also best for law enforcement. He considered the revolver a backup to a rifle when hunting and for use when the opportunity came up, not a primary hunting tool. He was asked what he would pick for hunting and said the 6 and 1/2 inch M29.

Read a couple of his books. He makes a good case for the 4 inch M29.

I visited the Elmer Keith Museum at Cabelas in Boise, Idaho and looked over his many firearms displayed there. The 4" N-frame is a common theme, especially in 41 and 44 Magnums.

As you might recall, I told the tale about the guy who told me about meeting Elmer.
Elmer was fly fishing in the Salmon and wearing a jacket. As they watched an eagle circle lower, Elmer pulled a revolver from a shoulder holster.
He shot and quickly returned the gun into the holster.
When I asked my Colorado buddy 'What kind of gun?'
He said he was not sure. The whole thing happened so fast he didn't get a good look at the gun.
His best guess was a 4 inch N Frame.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

There can be slight variations in the announced length of a barrel. This was pointed out to me by other members when I measured different lengths for 4" bbl'd K-frames. I have a 4" bbl'd 29 which runs 4.1". I used to own a 4" bbl'd 57 in .41 Mag., a virtual twin to the 29, and it's bbl. measured 3.9".

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

I have a recollection of reading Elmer's comment that his favorite barrel length for the S&W 29 was 5" length.

Rich

I've been to his museum also and the one reported to be his favorites all looked to be standard 4 inch to me. You need to read his books as he talks a lot about his carved Ivory Stocks and how they helped him control the recoil.
It's very very interesting.

FWIW... Somewhere in the loft of my garage I used to have a "Guns & Ammo" letter from Elmer, in the usual single paragraph, telling me how I should set up "your own personal 44 Magnum." It was the typical colorful Elmer letter of the '70s that many of us have seen and remarked about.

To summarize quickly, he advised his preference for a blued 4-inch Model 29 (at that time S&W was on the -2 version, which he did not object to) with the spur of target hammer trimmed and corners rounded to about 3/8" length, and target trigger thinned and narrowed also to about 3/8" or a bit less, and relieved slightly to whatever side was your strong hand. He also recommended a good action job and magna stocks without any filler.

Here is the surprise: he recommended the gun be magna-ported, which he said he preferred "for fast double-action work." I was a bit surprised by the magna-port recommendation. I had two friends who visited Elmer, one regularly and one from time to time. Both fellows said they had seen Elmer with magna-ported 44s, so I guess he meant what he said.

I followed his advice and had a Model 29 modified as he described (with the exception of the magna stocks, which I cannot use on a 44 Magnum revolver), and I still have it today.

Yes , Elmer had A 4.5in M29 and he liked it. IIRC , it started life as a longer bbl , and he had the factory shorten it. Off the top of my head can't recall if he specified 4.5 on purpose , or if the factory did so for some reason of theirs , possably having to do with existing bbl markings ?

But yes , most of his guns were 4in , and that is what he frequently recomended for a belt gun.

Elmer's first 29 was, if I recall, "remodeled," as he called it, by The Gun Reblue Co., and the barrel was cut to 4 1/2 inches from its original 6 1/2 inch length. It was also engraved during that "remodel" and he had it stocked in his trademark ivory magna stocks. That said, I believe he later used the standard 4 inch version.

EDIT: Picture at page 144 here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=VDC...0co%22&f=false

He shot an eagle? Why?

Can anyone post a reference to Keiths preference to a 4 & 1/2 ? I would love to see something in print. Are we sure were not confusing Skeeters preference for a 5" .357 or .44 special? I just don't see in Elmers books any reference to a 4 & 1/2 gun. I thought it was 4 " .NIck

My buddy said 'Elmer, eagles are federally protected. You can't shoot them. ' Elmer didn't like that law. He says- Eagles eat a lot of lambs, calves, fawns, baby elk, etc.

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And they make for really good target practice.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Go back to post # 10 and the link for pictures and info.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I've read a lot of Keith's writings. In the late sixties and way on into the seventies, Sixguns was my handgun Bible. I read it over and over and over. I even took the book on trips with me, and annotated my copy of it with my own thoughts and data. The majority of my handloads were based on Keith data. He was something of a hero to me when I was a younger man, the man who had all the answers to my sixgun questions.

That said, just because you're a famous gun writer, guru, sportsman, whatever doesn't put you above the law. In retrospect (and this eagle incident, if true, is a good example), Keith now seems something of a showoff to me and more than a little egotistical. He would not be a role model for me today as he was over forty years ago. He would no longer be one of the Gods of Guns for me.

While it may be true that eagles eat lambs, fawns, etc., that's part of the natural order of things. Keith inserted himself into that natural order, killed an eagle just because he didn't "like" it or the law that was enacted to protect it, and had no plans to eat it. Even animals don't kill for "sport".

Keith came from a time and a place where some people thought it was perfectly fine to blast an eagle.Attitudes changed,but his didnt.Classic old timer.

Concerning the 5 inch barreled M29, Herbie Harris used to come into the gun shop I worked in. He is the one that had the first run of 5 inchers made. He sent one to Elmer Keith. Keith said it was the perfect sized barrel length. Dont know why he carried 4 inchers. The first 5 inchers are rare and maybe he didnt want to put holster wear on it.

He shot an flying eagle off hand ?. Thats Keith for ya. I can hit a 10" gong at 100 off hand but a flying animal with a 44. Wow.

It was low and slow, circling. Apparently attracted by Elmer's fish.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

For Elmer's comments on the adjustable sight Chiefs Special, the 5 inch K38 and the 5 inch 44 Magnum, all specials by H. H. Harris of Chicago, see page 8 of the March 1960 issue of Guns Magazine here:

www.gunsmagazine.com/1960issues/G0360.pdf

I see that Skeeter is still 'Allen.'
A lot of you young guys may not know that Gen. Curtis LeMay was probably the most gun savvy General after Patton.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

General LeMay would roll over in his grave if he knew what the modern Air Force Generals did with his rifle and pistol teams. Nimitz would view today's Naval flag officers in a similar light for much the same reason.

While I agree that shooting at an Eagle is appalling, I think that this incident if true and not just hearsay - shows that Keith was a normal person, just like the rest of us with our own failings, likes and dislikes. Nobody is perfect.

Thanks for the link Sean!

Great article on Keith. I read several articles and enjoyed looking at the Milsurp ads. 6 Garands and ammo for 80 bucks!

I realize that 80 dollars was a lot of money in 1960 but it sure would have been a good investment.

I visited Mr. Keith at his home in Salmon in late 1979. The gun he had sitting on his mantle where it appeared he had his Land Cruiser keys, some change and a few dollars....was a 4" M-29. Don't recall it being mag-na-ported though. Would have remembered that for sure.

As far as the eagle incident. One must recall he grew up on a Ranch and later ranched himself. Vastly different times than now. The loss of calves or lambs hurt the operation. And I'd imagine in the 1920's and especially during the Great Depression of the 1930's ranches were operating on a narrow profit margin.

And Eagles WILL surely predate on calves and lambs.

A 4" 1950 .44 Target will always be the Gun I think of when I hear Elmer's name.

I love my 4" model 29

A quick flip through the supplement to Sixguns finds no mention of a 4.5" S&W. Elmer describes son Ted hunting with a Harris 5".

Eagles were not always highly regarded, especially in the West.
Read Elmer's hilarious account of the mysterious bag on muleback.
And P.O. Ackley was still building eagle rifles in the 1960s.

I just finished "Hell, I Was There." He related several tales of Goldens especially taking young fawns and ewes seemingly for sport. He said they would kill and let it go and go back for another. Hated coyotes and wolves too.

I read today in "Sixguns" that 4" was perfect when in the saddle (unless you where taller, a 5" would work). And 4" was the fastest for drawing (IIRC).

But like all things in life, we seem to evolve and our choices may change with age and time.

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Watch & Pray

If Elmer Keith shot his 4" barreled 44 @ 230yards how far did he shoot his rifles??

That recollection does sound familiar, but I wonder if it was his "first" 44 Magnum? I thought I had heard that the "first" 44 Magnum he received was a blued 6-1/2" gun, and that it was in the Cabela's display, as it came from the factory - but of course my memory could be at fault. Does anyone know for sure?

I also wonder if, as Bigfoot44 says, the cause for the 4-1/2" barrel was not just to make the lettering on the barrel center up nicer. Makes sense to me. Given Keith's constant harping on how he preferred the 4-inch gun with magna stocks, I can imagine that the 4-1/2" barrel might have come about that way.

On the other hand, if there was another 44 Magnum (a 4-1/2" gun that was special-ordered by Keith, and then later engraved), then the position of the lettering should not have been a factor... ?

So is the modified gun actually his "first" 44 Magnum, or is that gun still in original condition at Cabela's, or elsewhere? How many 4-1/2" guns did Elmer have?

A picture in Sixguns shows "the first 4 inch .44 Magnum, engraved by the Gun Reblue Co.

Here is what John Taffin wrote after handling Elmer's "sixguns" following Elmer's stroke:

"Keith's first .44 Magnum was a 6 1/2" Smith and Wesson that was soon cut to 4 1/2", and engraved and stocked by the now defunct Gun Reblue Co. This sixgun was featured in the 1958 Gun Digest. It too is a beautiful specimen with its full engraving and steerhead grips and like all of the .44's, has Keith's signature on the sideplate."

THE SIXGUNS OF ELMER KEITH

See the link in my post #10 if you want to see a picture of the revolver in question.

Shawn, I cannot view the photo because network security "embargoes" the website but do you know if that gun is s/n S147220? I believe that is the s/n that Bill has identified as being the first 44 Magnum shipped to Keith, if memory serves. (Bill, if you see this and that s/n is incorrect, please say so.)

Thanks for the link to the Taffin article.

M29since14:

I went back and reviewed more sources. There is a discrepancy in information related to the 4 1/2 inch engraved 44 Magnum.

The Gun Digest Book at this address:

The Gun Digest Book of the .44 - John Taffin - Google Books

clearly says that the 4 1/2 inch engraved revolver pictured was the first 44 Magnum Elmer received, and that it was cut down from 6 1/2 inches, engraved, etc., by The Gun Reblue Company, and that the cut back revolver was featured in the 1958 Gun Digest. See page 143.

However, the November 2008 issue of Handloader has an article by Brian Pearce about the Elmer Keith museum. Volume 43, No. 6 shows a picture of both the 6 1/2 inch 44 Magnum and the 4 1/2 inch engraved, cut-back, 44 Magnum. That article, by Brian Pearce, begins on page 256. The article says that S147220 was the third 44 Magnum shipped, that it was shipped to Elmer Keith and that it had a 6 1/2 inch barrel. The article goes on to state that the 6 1/2 inch is pictured (original barrel intact), and that it was the one Elmer used to make the finishing shot on the Mule Deer at +/- 600 yards. In that same article is a picture of the 4 1/2 inch cut back 44 Magnum, with the engraving and signature, and the ivory stocks. The plaque displayed with the 4 1/2 inch engraved revolver reads, "This original barrel length on this very early 44 Magnum was 6 1/2." Keith had Don Gowan of the Gun Reblue Co. cut the barrel to 4 1/2 inches, cover it with full engraving and stock it with ivory in Keith's favorite carving pattern, the Longhorn steer."

The Taffin article, however, seems to disagree with the Pearce article. Taffin states:

"Keith's first .44 Magnum was a 6 1/2" Smith and Wesson that was soon cut to 4 1/2", and engraved and stocked by the now defunct Gun Reblue Co. This sixgun was featured in the 1958 Gun Digest. It too is a beautiful specimen with its full engraving and steerhead grips and like all of the .44's, has Keith's signature on the sideplate." The Taffin article is here:

THE SIXGUNS OF ELMER KEITH

So, in conclusion, I have no idea. I always thought, based on the Taffin information and the information on the plaque with the display, that the 4 1/2 inch cut back from 6 1/2 inch was the first 44 Magnum Keith received. If I were betting, however, my bet goes with Taffin.

EDIT: See also here:

http://www.sixguns.com/BookOfThe44/bot44c21.htm

and check the caption under Picture 21-22.

I hope that helps.

Shawn

I thought I'd read every book Elmer wrote but, I've never read the quote you posted??? What books did you read this in???
Steve

Gents,
I don't think it's Taffin's fault- Elmer included a picture of the 4 1/2" gun in his October '57 GUNS magazine column "RELOADING THE .44 MAGNUM", with the notation that it was the "First .44 Magnum shipped from the factory......".
Maybe John Taffin could post the # of that one and straighten this out, assuming he's still the involved with the display. Brian Pearce may know the # as well. He's certainly an expert on Elmer.

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Good shooting.

In "Sixguns by Keith" (1961 Edition), on page 303 he states the best barrel length for gun fighting is 4" to 5" and prefers the 4" S&W (he carried the .44 Spl.) or 4 3/4" in a single action.

On page 314 he speaks of the 4" .44 Mag as being the finest peace officer gun to date and how he carries one daily.

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Watch & Pray

S.B.: Sorry, I don't remember exactly where I read this. Elmer used to write for Guns&Ammo magazine and I probably read all of them. I remember that one of the gun writers asked him about handgun hunting and he said he considered the handgun a backup to the rifle, not as a primary gun. But if he had to pick one it would be the 6 and 1/2 inch M29. He was all about taking the game and the rifle was best for that.

Before I read this thread I never heard of a 4.5 inch 29.
Now that I see the information on an engraved 4.5, yes Elmer certainly owned one.
But back to the original question- did Elmer prefer and carry a 4.5?
I see no information on this thread or elsewhere to support that.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Keith was not a large man. When he moved to town he no longer carried 5.5in SAs, as in his guiding days. He took to wearing a 4in 1950 Target, probably because he spent more time sitting in chairs and cars. Keith seems to have retired his .44spl 4in as he regarded the 44mag as the best.

Skeeter also went with a 4.5in in the M28 he had made into a .44spl for his Shooting Times article. Skeeter said he was inspired by Colt New Service guns of his youth.

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Now, that surprises me also? I thought Skeeter was fond of his 5" 27 with 1/10" wide front sight and Mesquite grips? But, then again Skeeter had many favorites. And of course his friend Evan Quiros(sp) had his 8&3/8" pair of 29s?
Steve

I believe the 6.5in Pre-29 and White Box ammo used by Brian Pearce in the Handloader article were obtained from the widow of Judge Don Martin.

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

I remember Keith stating that he carried a 4" md 29 in a belt holster
all the time while at home. I think it was in his book "Sixguns" that
I read that.

Elmer Keith mostly carried a 4-inch 44 Magnum after it became available. However, around 1960, he wrote in an article the 4 1/2-inch barrel may be ideal for law enforcement officers. The article may have inspired the order of the Model 29-2 shown below that was made by S&W and shipped in July 1963. It is the only known 44 Magnum with a 4 1/2-inch barrel. It also letters with smooth stocks.

Bill

Nice revolver................

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Quoting from my 2007 copy of "Best of Shooting Times and Guns & Ammo", the reprinted article "elmer keith's favorite guns" by Elmer Keith from the December 1961 Guns & Ammo.

"Since Smith & Wesson sent me the very first .44 Magnum produced and Remington the first factory loads for the same, it has been my favorite cartridge. As soon as Smith & Wesson produced the first 4-inch models of this great gun, they sent me one of the first, and I have carried it ever since for peace officer work. Later, I acquired a mate to it and also had another 6 1/2-inch gun cut down to 4 1/2 inches, which I think is an even better length than the 4 for most peace officers." "For this work , there is no finer gun than the S&W double action .44 Magnum in a 4- to 4 1/2- inch barrel or even 5 1/2" for big, tall men."

Hope that this clears things up a bit, but it only speaks of his barrel length preference for law enforcement work and not field use or personal protection.

Best Regards,
ADP3

That info seems to indicate that S147220 was not the gun Elmer had remodeled into the 4.5-incher.

Like all of us except a very few, Elmer's opinions sometimes "modulated" as time passed and he responded to different inquiries but I think he was fairly consistent in his fondness of the 4-inch gun.