Smith & Wesson Quality...New Forged Parts

mag318

mag318

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This afternoon my LGS got in a new 686 Plus with a 3" barrel. I looked at one of these a couple years ago and was not impressed with the fit and finish. The one today though was beautiful, even with the dreaded lock and MIM parts. I think S&W must be stepping up their quality control as of late. I usually prefer the older dash revolvers but have to say the fit and finish was as good as any stainless Smith I've ever owned. Even the action was glass smooth with perfect timing. I think a lot has to do with whoever assembled the revolver, but whoever did this particular one had pride in what he/she was doing. I may just go back and buy it.
 
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I was just perusing Davidsons "Gallery of Guns" site and they are showing the 686 Plus with forged hammers and triggers. Is S&W moving away from the MIM parts, this is the first I've heard of this.
 
mag318 said:
I was just perusing Davidsons "Gallery of Guns" site and they are showing the 686 Plus with forged hammers and triggers. Is S&W moving away from the MIM parts, this is the first I've heard of this.
Click to expand...

Saw a new 686+ (fresh off the truck, even) with a long barrel yesterday. Regular MIM bits, with which I have zero issues. That revolver, whilst well timed, with good action, and well installed barrel, did have a new odd defect: The aft end of the forcing cone had impact damage from a rectangular object! Twice! Likely won't affect shootability, as that area shouldn't interact with the bullet, but it was not pretty. Had to have been done before installation. (It also had some horrible new style factory laminate wood stocks, with ".357" markings on either side. Ewww!)

I suspect there's somebody unhappy with their job...
 
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Performance Center guns are often forged, with some dealer exclusives and Pro Series guns being flash chromed MIM.
 
Check out Davidsons "Gallery of Guns" they're showing 686s with forged hammers and triggers. At first I thought perhaps a distributors exclusive perhaps.
 
I don't believe S&W is using any forged hammers or triggers any longer, Performance Center or otherwise.
 
Quality Control? Fixable but take note when buying new.

I have owned my 686 4" since 1986 and have nothing but praise for the workmanship/milling that S&W put into their guns back then. HOWEVER...

That said, I just bought a new 642CT and found the quality was NOT what I expected. After shooting 50 rounds at the range and running caps for 200-300 rounds, I started getting a pronounced catch/lock on the trigger pull of this "brand new" revolver.

HOWEVER, being rather anal, I immediately decided to pull this "brand new" 642CT apart to find out what was going on. As you can see in the image below, there are plenty of shavings to go around. On closer inspection I found much in the way of rough edges on both milled and cast parts, but mostly on the cast pieces. :eek: :confused:

The Thumb activator/release cast piece had actually started to gouge the back of the frame's channel because of the castings elevated rough edges. Took some 600grit and a small rat-tail file and cleaned/smoothed some of the edges on the thumb release mechanism that was digging into the frame. Also cleaned up the trigger mechanism's working edges where I could see how the wear pattern was developing.

After the cleaning/fitting, I lubed everything with a touch of CLP. I think this did much more for ease of use than wearing out my finger snapping all those caps... :(

NOTE: If you look closely at the aft end of the thumb release, you can clearly see some of the casting edges standing proud. The backside of this piece had the same and was actively gouging the aluminum frame. Remember that I have had this gun less than one week.
642-Internal-Shavings.jpg
 
All my guns are lubed with a moly paste or anti-sneeze. These two blends of moly has a higher percentage of moly in it.

Moly,

1.Eliminates all Wear,
Moly gets into the microscopic pores of the metal so there is no metal to metal contact, it's moly wearing against itself thus the wear is eliminated.

2.Reduces Friction,
Reduces all the stiction between the metal to metal moving parts. The action and trigger pull will be much smoother. Applied to the trigger sear it will lessen the trigger pull by up to 50% right away and more was it works into the pores of the metal.

3. Prevents Galling
4. Fights Corrosion
5. Stays were we apply/put it.
6. Does not attract dirt

Oil does nothing to reduce wear. My semi-auto's cycle faster and smoother. My bolt action rifles, the bolts operate more smoother. All the triggers feel awesome on the let off too. It actually makes us more accurate.
 
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Jet Lube 50MP

BigBill said:
Moly,

1.Eliminates all Wear,
Moly gets into the microscopic pores of the metal so there is no metal to metal contact, it's moly wearing against itself thus the wear is eliminated.

2.Reduces Friction,
Reduces all the stiction between the metal to metal moving parts. The action and trigger pull will be much smoother. Applied to the trigger sear it will lessen the trigger pull by up to 50% right away and more was it works into the pores of the metal.

3. Prevents Galling
4. Fights Corrosion
5. Stays were we apply/put it.
6. Does not attract dirt

Oil does nothing to reduce wear. My semi-auto's cycle faster and smoother. My bolt action rifles, the bolts operate more smoother. All the triggers feel awesome on the let off too. It actually makes us more accurate.
Click to expand...


Bill, are you talking about Jet Lube MP50 paste? If so, I happen to have that critter. I use it on my telescope tracking gears, but will consider using in on my 642CT if this is the right stuff. It surely has the heat tolerance capacity.

shopping
 
There are many different brands of moly paste and moly anti seeze.

McMaster Carr industrial supply offers some.

I mainly use the TS-70 moly from T.S. Moly Lubricants Inc. it's roughly $25 a can.

Try the action first without it. Then remove the side plate, clean and apply moly on all the metal to metal contact parts. Put some moly on the trigger sear. Assemble the gun and run the action by hand till it works into the pores and it will free up. The action and trigger will be very smooth.
If the action remains tight you have too much moly in it. Don't forget to lube the cylinder studs, the swing out stud and the lever and turn star on the rear of the cylinder. And the cylinder release system too. The center lock engagement and the end of the extractor rod. The cylinder will open and close much smoother.

The moly test on a 1911 or any auto pistol.

Disassemble the pistol. Take the bare frame and empty slide and run them by hand. You will feel the drag, the roughness of the slide on the frame. Now apply the moly on the frame rails and slide grooves. Now run the two parts together. You will feel the moly doing its job as it gets smoother as we run the slide.
 
HorizontalMike said:
Bill, are you talking about Jet Lube MP50 paste? If so, I happen to have that critter. I use it on my telescope tracking gears, but will consider using in on my 642CT if this is the right stuff. It surely has the heat tolerance capacity.

shopping
Click to expand...

HM, that will work. Bill
 
BigBill said:
HM, that will work. Bill
Click to expand...

Great! Thanks Bill!

FWIW, I had just completed a complete trigger job following a YouTube gunsmith, stoning all the appropriate contacts but using only gun oil. That got me through my CHL class without any major catches/glitches.

Scored a 230 on the range with the misses all at the 15yd line. THAT was only my second box of rounds through this revolver. I thought that was good considering this is my first J-frame, but I do realize that I need to work on my DA skills with this gun.

Sure love having a CT on this revolver. While I was not allowed to use it in the CHL class, I am sure it will help me, along with my snap-caps, to improve my DA skills without breaking the bank... :);)

Will pull it apart today and apply the moly paste. Think I'll wear some nitrile gloves since I know how messy this can get.

Oh, and one last thing... Thanks again for the bricks of 22LR I got off of you last year. Looks like the 22LR drought is over this year, but at twice the price over last year!:eek:
 
Sad Situation

HorizontalMike said:
I have owned my 686 4" since 1986 and have nothing but praise for the workmanship/milling that S&W put into their guns back then. HOWEVER...

That said, I just bought a new 642CT and found the quality was NOT what I expected. After shooting 50 rounds at the range and running caps for 200-300 rounds, I started getting a pronounced catch/lock on the trigger pull of this "brand new" revolver.

HOWEVER, being rather anal, I immediately decided to pull this "brand new" 642CT apart to find out what was going on. As you can see in the image below, there are plenty of shavings to go around. On closer inspection I found much in the way of rough edges on both milled and cast parts, but mostly on the cast pieces. :eek: :confused:

The Thumb activator/release cast piece had actually started to gouge the back of the frame's channel because of the castings elevated rough edges. Took some 600grit and a small rat-tail file and cleaned/smoothed some of the edges on the thumb release mechanism that was digging into the frame. Also cleaned up the trigger mechanism's working edges where I could see how the wear pattern was developing.

After the cleaning/fitting, I lubed everything with a touch of CLP. I think this did much more for ease of use than wearing out my finger snapping all those caps... :(

NOTE: If you look closely at the aft end of the thumb release, you can clearly see some of the casting edges standing proud. The backside of this piece had the same and was actively gouging the aluminum frame. Remember that I have had this gun less than one week.
642-Internal-Shavings.jpg
Click to expand...

It's truly sad to see that S&W's quality has gone down hill. Like it's been said here many times, they just don't make'em like they used to.
 
I've seen much worse in new revolvers during the 1980s and '90s. But have seen better as well. Consistency has not been a S&W trait for some time! Probably sometime before WWII.
 
I have no problem with my new s&w n frames. Even the older ones and the newer ones are lubed with moly. Don't forget to run it by hand. The trigger sear will show the biggest improvement right away.
 
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