Model 629-5 Classic with .44 Special cylinder

MXP · May 15, 2015

Hi

Where I live .44 Mag revolver is not allowed. For that reason some revolvers are converted to .44 Special so they can only chamber .44 Spl rounds. I have ordered a 629-5 Classic with 6.5 inch barrel for target shooting. I have to wait some month to get the permission. I am interested in knowing if the two cylinders have the same outer dimensions? ...I think this is needed......at least the length has to match? ...in order to have the same cylinder gab? .....what about the outer dimension? ....do you think a .44 Spl cylinder can take the same amount of pressure as a .44 Mag cylinder for this revolver?

k22fan · May 15, 2015

While their outside diameters were the same Model 624 .44 Special cylinders were about 0.11” shorter in the front than .44 magnum cylinders. .44 Special barrels protruded 0.11” further into the frame to meet the shorter .44 special cylinders. S&W hasn’t made Model 624s or any other N frame .44 special in significant numbers since the late 1980s. The Standard Catalog of S&W writes Model 624s were made 1985 - 1988. Additionally, there was a recall on some of their cylinders. S&W used up all their 624 cylinders replacing the cylinders in recalled 624s. After they ran out they were offering to replace the whole revolver.

I think you need to start by finding a gunsmith willing do a conversion then plan the job based on what he thinks is workable. Every way that I can think of would be expensive.

MXP · May 15, 2015

The 629-5 Classic I have bought (but not received) is already converted. I just wondered how it has been done. The barrel is the original. Therefore it was my assumption that the cylinders was identical in outer dimensions. The image of the actual gun is attached. I assume that it is after the conversion. It will take a few month before I can pick it up........

k22fan · May 15, 2015

That looks like a 629-5 cylinder, not an old Model 624 cylinder. 624 cylinders did not have the elongated stop notches, they had deeper flutes and they did not have the bevel on the front edge. Also they had the older brushed finish. 629-5 cylinders have a frosted appearance because they were tumbled. I wonder if the chambers were sleeved. Can you ask the seller how the conversion was done?

Yorkie Man · May 15, 2015

They could have taken a 657 cylinder and rechambered it to .44 Spl.

GunarSailors · May 15, 2015

I was thinking about doing the same thing, for the same reasons...
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/392015-update-41-mag-44-spl-conversion.html

MXP · May 15, 2015

I have written than a mail and asked if the picture is with the original cylinder or the Special cylinder and also asked about the length of the cylinder and cylinder gap......how they handle this.

This is a link to the used revolvers they sell:
Grovrevolver

.....if you go down the list to e.g. model 629 you see some sold as .44 Special and some as .44 Mag. The .44 Specials has been converted. The description says that the gun is delivered with a .44 Special cylinder and therefore can't chamber a .44 Mag round. But interesting to know how they did it.......

sw282 · May 15, 2015

l just measured the cylinders of my 657-4 and 629-6 and they are different lengths.. 1.700'' on 629 and 1.657'' on my 657...l suppose the barrel would have to be reset too

MXP · May 15, 2015

I just got a short answer from the shop which has done the conversion and the answer was that the .44 Special cylinder they use has the same length as the original Mag cylinder. So it is just a swap of cylinder. The argument for using a cylinder with same dimensions was that if not then they also had to make an extension of the barrel.

MXP · May 16, 2015

If the .44 Special cylinder is as strong as the original Mag cylinder what would be the limiting factor of how hot a .44 Special can be loaded?
Would it be how much powder you can fill in the case?

I do not hand load but maybe in the feature. I think the only .44 spl I can get in the moment is the Magtech LRN which is a low pressure round.

steelslaver · May 16, 2015

With a modern N frame you would be able to load up some pretty hot 44 specials with no ill effects. But, I don't like the how much powder you can fill in a case question. A 44 special case full of Red Dot would be a bomb. One nearly full of 2400 would OK. 44 mag was developed by hot rodding 44 specials. The special case is shorter and with less capacity the same amount of powder as a 44 mag would cause more pressure.

MXP · May 16, 2015

......ok...but a .44 Special case is as strong as a .44 Mag case? ...the only difference between the cases is the length?

Often when I see a .44 Spl standing beside a .44 Mag round the top of the projectiles are almost in level. More of the .44 spl projectile is then visible like the attached image shows. Is it a wrong conclusion based on this that the space for powder is almost the same in the two cases?

I will remember the "red dot" .....then space for powder in a .44Spl case is not the limitation.....

Do you always follow loading tables when you hand load or is there some room for experimentations?

In my case where a .44 Mag frame is used could you use the loading table for "red dot" magnum loads and use it for .44 Special?

arjay · May 16, 2015

I believe the only difference between the cases was 1/10 (?) of an inch in length to prevent 44 magnums from being used in 44 special guns.

Big Cholla · May 16, 2015

A Slippery Slope

MXP said:
......ok...but a .44 Special case is as strong as a .44 Mag case? ...the only difference between the cases is the length?

Often when I see a .44 Spl standing beside a .44 Mag round the top of the projectiles are almost in level. More of the .44 spl projectile is then visible like the attached image shows. Is it a wrong conclusion based on this that the space for powder is almost the same in the two cases?

I will remember the "red dot" .....then space for powder in a .44Spl case is not the limitation.....

Do you always follow loading tables when you hand load or is there some room for experimentations?

In my case where a .44 Mag frame is used could you use the loading table for "red dot" magnum loads and use it for .44 Special?

Sir: IMHO, There are reloading books written about the things wrong in your thinking. You should do an enormous amount of research before ruining a beautiful S&W. For your beginning reloads, Please use only a reputable reloading manual's load data for 44 Special. There are too many aspects of physics in play here to go into. Suffice to say, DON'T EXPERIMENT with magnum loads in 44 Special cases. Yes it has been done, but by people with years and years of reloading and gunsmithing experience.

As mentioned above, most likely someone used a 41 Magnum cylinder from a M 657 for the conversion. A good way to go in my opinion. Every component of your new S&W is magnum strong and capable, but don't go there until you understand all the ramifications of putting magnum loads into small case sizes.....................

MXP · May 16, 2015

Thank you for the advices. Before I am allowed to hand load it is mandatory to attend a seminar about hand loading. After this the ministry of justice has to say ok that I can start hand loading.

I don't hope my 629 will end up as the pictures shows. I guess that could happen if I just fill the case up with "red dot". I will of course start using normal .44 Special loads. I was just interesting in the potential of the .44 Special as the rules says that a only a .44 Special revolver is allowed.

Now when the .44 special cylinder has same length as the .44 mag cylinder I wonder what prevents a .44 Mag to be inserted. On the blown cylinder there is "something" just where the case ends so I guess the diameter of the .44 Special cylinder is a bit smaller just where the .44 Special case ends. If it is a .41 Mag cylinder that is used the gunsmith should know what he is doing.

steelslaver · May 16, 2015

Even though the cylinder is the same length the chamber holes are not the same. The step from case diameter to bullet throat diameter is in a different location. A 44 mag case will hit this step before it is fully seated. You need to do some reloading manual reading

sw282 · May 16, 2015

Elmer's favorite 44sp load was 18gr of 2400 with his 250KT bullet...That's M A X...

MXP · May 16, 2015

I look forward to learn about hand loading. Interesting to see how a cylinder is constructed inside. I have always wondered why .22 LR cylinders is much longer than the round. The .22 LR is quite special in having the bullet flush with the case so cylinder bore should just be same diameter all the way. It seems no problem that the bullet travels a long distance until it meets the barrel with the rifling.......but that should probably be another thread than this one

MXP · May 16, 2015

sw282 said:
Elmer's favorite 44sp load was 18gr of 2400 with his 250KT bullet...That's M A X...

ok.....that it probably fine. Gun is used for target shooting so if this configuration is accurate at 25m.....and for field shooting if it could go out to about 50-75m without dropping to much.....

The ballistics of a standard .357 mag is probably much better at the long distances. Not many other rounds beats a .357 mag at long distance......but I have seen very light bullets for .44 Special.....down to 110 gr? ....these should travel very fast and flat....even with a standard .44 Special load?

Kernel Crittenden · May 16, 2015

MXP said:
I wonder what prevents a .44 Mag to be inserted...

It's been explained in words, but here's a picture....

See the "chamber throat"? That is what prevents a Magnum case from fully entering a Special chamber.

To understand the .44 Special you need to know it is derived from an older 19th Century cartridge called the .44 Russian. The Russian was a black powder cartridge. The case volume of the Russian need to be very large due to the lower energy level of black powder (when compared to modern smokeless powders).

The .44 Special operates at a higher pressure so the case was made a little longer, to prevent it from being used in older and weaker .44 Russian guns. Just as the .44 Magnum is even higher pressure, it was made longer still only to prevent it from fitting into older and weaker .44 Special guns.

The end result is the .44 Magnum (and the Special, to a lesser degree) are WAY oversize from the standpoint of necessary case volume. The cases are so large, not because all that space is need for powder, they are large so the cartridges will not fit into older and weaker guns. That's the only reason.

Model 629-5 Classic with .44 Special cylinder

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