CATI1835
US Veteran
Anyone used Teddy Jacobson, Actions by T, for trigger work on their J frame? How satisfied were you? Thanks in advance.
UPDATE-
See update below
UPDATE-
See update below
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UPDATE...Trigger job, J frame
- Thread starter CATI1835
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I do not lighten triggers on J-frames, it often compromises reliability. I prefer a heavy trigger to one I am unsure of
As to smoothing them out, drop in some snap caps and pull the trigger all through the nightly news. Do this for a month and not only do you have a free trigger job, you also have a stronger trigger finger
As to smoothing them out, drop in some snap caps and pull the trigger all through the nightly news. Do this for a month and not only do you have a free trigger job, you also have a stronger trigger finger
1. I have heard, but not experienced his work, and many think it is well-done.
2. As a S&W-trained LEO armorer, I can say that it is certainly possible to smooth out a J-frame a little bit in ways that simply dry-firing will not. It will never be as nice as a good K-frame. And while reliable hammer strikes and good snappy return are vital, you don't need to run super duper springs to get it. A slightly lighter rebound spring, assuming the action is smooth and balanced, will not hurt reliability in the slightest. I have a couple that have turned out great; and others that while better don't approach what a good K or N-frame turns out.
Anyone who says otherwise has either gotten or botched-up one themselves.
2. As a S&W-trained LEO armorer, I can say that it is certainly possible to smooth out a J-frame a little bit in ways that simply dry-firing will not. It will never be as nice as a good K-frame. And while reliable hammer strikes and good snappy return are vital, you don't need to run super duper springs to get it. A slightly lighter rebound spring, assuming the action is smooth and balanced, will not hurt reliability in the slightest. I have a couple that have turned out great; and others that while better don't approach what a good K or N-frame turns out.
Anyone who says otherwise has either gotten or botched-up one themselves.
Mark, you are absolutely correct. People who have taken this advice are amazed at how everything smooths out. I like doing it watching an old
Bogart movie. Best.
Bogart movie. Best.
I must totally disagree here.
If the user keeps his/her J-frame properly cleaned and lubricated a slightly lighter rebound spring is no big deal.
As a S&W armorer myself, both in an LE capacity and as gunsmith in my uncle's shop for decades, I have seen far too many folks that bought their J-frame for protection, shot them and let the lubrication turn to sludge over the years, compromising reliability to the point where they finally took it to the Gun Shop for service.
These are not target guns. In a civilian capacity, these are tools to save your butt when you step into something unexpected.
Reliability is king, leave the factory springs alone
Some worthy opinions here. While I am known to be of the leave-it-alone "school," I believe the following should be said:
If you are considering any action mod, take your weapon to a trained gunsmith/armorer. Perhaps I'm naive, but I do not believe any factory-trained LEO armorer will do anything irresponsible.
Also, I recommend not "YouTube-ing" your gun. Tinker with your car, if you will,but not with your gun, especially a carry piece.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
If you are considering any action mod, take your weapon to a trained gunsmith/armorer. Perhaps I'm naive, but I do not believe any factory-trained LEO armorer will do anything irresponsible.
Also, I recommend not "YouTube-ing" your gun. Tinker with your car, if you will,but not with your gun, especially a carry piece.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
Well said. Over the years I've seen some bad work done on guns. The worst was a trigger job done on a 1911 by someone who knew almost nothing about what he was doing. On his first shot, the gun went fully automatic with the last shot ending up in the ceiling. The shooter had a look of shock on his face and the gun had to go in to a gunsmith for repair. Never "you tube" it and don't do it yourself if you don't have any experience.
I don't lighten mainsprings in any of my revolvers because they all have defense use. This isn't to say it can't be done, but it's more tinkering in finding the right combination of reduce power mainspring and load than I want or need to perform; anyone willing to take the time and has a legitimate need (such as medically cause hand strength issues) is to be encouraged and instructed.
In Js, I've found little meaningful effect in reduced power rebound springs, at least until trigger return suddenly becomes hitchy; Ks and up are much better served with reduced power rebound springs, at least to my hand.
Js, I think, do improve meaningfully when carefully and professional stoned throughout all contact points in the action. Correctly done, trigger pull is incrementally lighter, but notably smoother, and with zero affect on reliability.
To the OPs actual questoin: Teddy Jacobson is by-and-large considered a somewhat cantankerous, unusual fellow who over time has rubbed a few people the wrong way, but his credentials as a expert tuner of firearm actions is superb. You can certainly let him or any qualified revolversmith know that you only want a defense tune, need total reliability, and so are only looking to smooth the action, not swap or tension the springs.
In Js, I've found little meaningful effect in reduced power rebound springs, at least until trigger return suddenly becomes hitchy; Ks and up are much better served with reduced power rebound springs, at least to my hand.
Js, I think, do improve meaningfully when carefully and professional stoned throughout all contact points in the action. Correctly done, trigger pull is incrementally lighter, but notably smoother, and with zero affect on reliability.
To the OPs actual questoin: Teddy Jacobson is by-and-large considered a somewhat cantankerous, unusual fellow who over time has rubbed a few people the wrong way, but his credentials as a expert tuner of firearm actions is superb. You can certainly let him or any qualified revolversmith know that you only want a defense tune, need total reliability, and so are only looking to smooth the action, not swap or tension the springs.
Helderberg
US Veteran
There is also the option of having S&W do a tune up or, what I ended up doing, buying a Talo PC 642. The difference between my stock 638 and the PC 642 is very noticeable. Just an idea as I have never had a light strike or malfunction in the factory tuned gun. Just another way to go if you wish.
Be safe, Frank.
Be safe, Frank.
shottist
Absent Comrade
DON'T MESS WITH J FRAMES!!!! They are essentially point and shoot, close range, last ditch defensive weapons, not precision target devices and do not require lightened triggers.
Have dealt with Teddy and he can be a trip but all I know have been very happy with his work.
Have dealt with Teddy and he can be a trip but all I know have been very happy with his work.
3rdgeargrndrr
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Agree with the previous posters. I put an aprx kit on my 638 and removed it. Pulling the snub out of a pocket you are possibly going to hurt yourself. It does nothing for accuracy for me with such a short sight radius. Went back to stock. My 638 is not a range toy anyhow
A few years ago, Teddy Jacobsen did action jobs on my sp101 and 617. He seems a little eccentric, but so are most of my friends. I enjoyed talking to him. There was a very noticeable improvement in both revolvers. I'd expect he knows what he is doing with J frames as well.
HorizontalMike
US Veteran
Not sold on Snap Cap Break-in Method
I agree about leaving the OEM trigger/spring stock.
However, I found that after 200-300 snap caps and a single box of 50rds, my 642 was actually locking up and it was less than 2 weeks old at the time (Jan-2015). Here is what all those snap caps revealed in that time. Yes those are plenty of metal shavings:
I ended up doing my own "trigger" job out of necessity. I stoned the rebound slide & channel, the body where the cylinder release was carving/scratching out it's own channel, and carefully stoned the trigger mechanism contact points. I re-lubed with CLP and reassembled. I have a much improved trigger pull and thus far 100% reliability firing standard 158gr rounds and +P.
IMO, snap caps are good for dry fire practice (with a laser), but snap caps are not and should not be depended on to "smooth out a trigger.
This is just my opinion, your mileage may vary...
I agree about leaving the OEM trigger/spring stock.
However, I found that after 200-300 snap caps and a single box of 50rds, my 642 was actually locking up and it was less than 2 weeks old at the time (Jan-2015). Here is what all those snap caps revealed in that time. Yes those are plenty of metal shavings:
I ended up doing my own "trigger" job out of necessity. I stoned the rebound slide & channel, the body where the cylinder release was carving/scratching out it's own channel, and carefully stoned the trigger mechanism contact points. I re-lubed with CLP and reassembled. I have a much improved trigger pull and thus far 100% reliability firing standard 158gr rounds and +P.
IMO, snap caps are good for dry fire practice (with a laser), but snap caps are not and should not be depended on to "smooth out a trigger.
This is just my opinion, your mileage may vary...
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
I've carried a DAO (concealed hammer) J-frame every day for a good many years because I want to feel that my defensive gun is as near foolproof and 100% reliable as a handgun can be.
I had a smith do a little polish of the internals, which smoothed but didn't noticeably lighten the trigger. That's all except for having the trigger face polished and radiused and an orange insert put in the front sight. I trust the little J implicitly as it is, and want that happy state of affairs to continue.
Your mileage, etc., of course.
I had a smith do a little polish of the internals, which smoothed but didn't noticeably lighten the trigger. That's all except for having the trigger face polished and radiused and an orange insert put in the front sight. I trust the little J implicitly as it is, and want that happy state of affairs to continue.
Your mileage, etc., of course.
ccjcc81
Member
He's right. I've been doing this with my new j frame for about 2 weeks now, and the pull lightened up noticeably. That trigger was really heavy and stacky out of the box. And I can curl a 10 pound dumbell with my trigger finger now.
Yes, stacky is a word. No, don't look it up. Just trust me.
OP
CATI1835
US Veteran
UPDATE
Just got my 432PD back from Teddy Jacobson yesterday. Took it to the range this morning. 200 rounds through it, 2 different calibers, .32H&R Mag and .32 S&W Long. Three different brands. Not a single failure. Looking good. Here is what he did:
Complete action job - reduced DAO trigger pull from 14+ lbs. to 8 lbs. ISMI hammer spring, Wolff triger return spring.
Replaced the firing pin with a slightly longer one, TJ says S&W shortened the firing pins on newer revolvers.
Cleaned, polished, lubed all internals.
Painted front sight (remarkably helpful).
Jeweled the hammer and reblued as necessary.
I am very happy with the outcome. Very smooth and lighter, but not too light, consistent pull. A few hundred more rounds without a problem and this becomes my primary CCW again.
Just got my 432PD back from Teddy Jacobson yesterday. Took it to the range this morning. 200 rounds through it, 2 different calibers, .32H&R Mag and .32 S&W Long. Three different brands. Not a single failure. Looking good. Here is what he did:
Complete action job - reduced DAO trigger pull from 14+ lbs. to 8 lbs. ISMI hammer spring, Wolff triger return spring.
Replaced the firing pin with a slightly longer one, TJ says S&W shortened the firing pins on newer revolvers.
Cleaned, polished, lubed all internals.
Painted front sight (remarkably helpful).
Jeweled the hammer and reblued as necessary.
I am very happy with the outcome. Very smooth and lighter, but not too light, consistent pull. A few hundred more rounds without a problem and this becomes my primary CCW again.
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Good to hear. Money well spent.
I have smoothed the internals and put wolff spring kits in every one of my
J-frames for 30 years and never has any issues except it allows those with less finger strength to shoot the gun comfortably and far more accurately.
I have smoothed the internals and put wolff spring kits in every one of my
J-frames for 30 years and never has any issues except it allows those with less finger strength to shoot the gun comfortably and far more accurately.
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Green Frog
Member
This thread points up the reason I like I-frame S&Ws and have even asked whether it would be possible to convert a J-frame action to an I-frame action. The J-frame is the only Smith to utilize a coil-type mainspring. This is the source of the "stackiness" mentioned above, while the I-frame was just a miniature version of the K- or N-frame with a blade-type mainspring. I have had a couple of folks talk down about the trigger on an I-frame, but they sure do seem to keep gaining in collector appeal, not just for age and looks, but IMHO at least because of the way they work. Sure wish I had the wherewithal to build a conversion from J- to I-mainspring just to satisfy my curiosity. 
Froggie
Froggie
GCF
Member
Do you know what firing pin he used? I'd be interested in any additional details.
Thanks & congrats!
