What would cause a revolver to

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tiggen

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fire a round, then have the hammer cocked SA and the cylinder NOT advance to the next chamber?

This happened with a new to me revolver in the middle of about 100 rounds. Shot three different loads (130 gr .38, 158 gr .38, 158 gr .357) all double action for over 50 rounds, shot one cylinder of the 158 gr .38 single action, one cylinder of the 130 gr .38 single action, and then three rounds of the 158 gr .357 single action.

Everything was running smoothly until I fired the first round of .357 single action. The gun fired, I pulled the hammer back, pulled the trigger, and then heard click. I thought it was a misfire, and after holding it down range for a little while I opened up the cylinder to find the first casing still sitting in line with the barrel, and the other two cartridges off to the right.

The gun had fired, I pulled the hammer back, the cylinder didn't move, and the hammer dropped again when I next pressed the trigger.

Btw, I went on to shoot another 50-60 rounds single and double action with out any problems.

And something else weird: a few shots later I felt something hit me in the left shoulder. Whatever it was wasn't heavy, didn't leave a mark, and I couldn't find it. I didn't think much of it and wouldn't even mention it if not for the previous weirdness.

Any ideas?
 
tiggen said:
fire a round, then have the hammer cocked SA and the cylinder NOT advance to the next chamber?

This happened with a new to me revolver in the middle of about 100 rounds. Shot three different loads (130 gr .38, 158 gr .38, 158 gr .357) all double action for over 50 rounds, shot one cylinder of the 158 gr .38 single action, one cylinder of the 130 gr .38 single action, and then three rounds of the 158 gr .357 single action.

Everything was running smoothly until I fired the first round of .357 single action. The gun fired, I pulled the hammer back, pulled the trigger, and then heard click. I thought it was a misfire, and after holding it down range for a little while I opened up the cylinder to find the first casing still sitting in line with the barrel, and the other two cartridges off to the right.

The gun had fired, I pulled the hammer back, the cylinder didn't move, and the hammer dropped again when I next pressed the trigger.

Btw, I went on to shoot another 50-60 rounds single and double action with out any problems.

And something else weird: a few shots later I felt something hit me in the left shoulder. Whatever it was wasn't heavy, didn't leave a mark, and I couldn't find it. I didn't think much of it and wouldn't even mention it if not for the previous weirdness.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

Afternoon tiggen

Lots of ideas but without the gun in front of me here they
are pretty well all guesses.

Hopefully it was just single issue caused by you having
your finger on the trigger & basically short stroking it.

If it happens again pay attention to where your trigger finger is/was during the hammer cocking.
 
Cylinder Advance.

That the cylinder is not advancing indicates a problem with the "dog." That's the little arm that engages the indexing notches on the extractor star to advance the cylinder.

Unless you have had S&W armorers' training, you should bring the gun to a gunsmith.
 
Something coming back could be lead from the cylinder out of time because something broke. Dont shoot that puppy until a gunsmith inspects it. Should be a simple fix if a S&W.
 
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Never heard of it happening with a .357, but "pre-Endurance Package" 29's firing maximum-charge heavy-bullet loads could develop a condition where the cylinder would unlock under recoil and actually rotate back one chamber, so that when the shooter cocked the hammer he was actually rotating the just-fired chamber back in to position for another go. I once had a 29-2 that would do this from time to time, and I fixed it by installing a heavy-duty cylinder stop spring.
 
wolverine said:
Hopefully it was just single issue caused by you having
your finger on the trigger & basically short stroking it.
Click to expand...

Thank you for responding. I was testing accuracy and had the gun cocked for a few good seconds before pulling the trigger, so I'm not sure this was it unless I'm misreading your reply.
 
federali said:
That the cylinder is not advancing indicates a problem with the "dog." That's the little arm that engages the indexing notches on the extractor star to advance the cylinder.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. If indeed it is a problem with the hand, why would it only happen one time?
 
HTML:
4barrel said:
Something coming back could be lead from the cylinder out of time because something broke.
Click to expand...

Thanks for responding. Cylinder is still locking up normally as I dry fire the gun. Looking down the bore with a flashlight at the firing pin, I see the "circle within the circle" for each chamber. If something broke, would it not still be broken?
 
armorer951 said:
I would guess a damaged hand spring (spring not able to hold the hand forward properly), dirt or shooting debris in the hand window in the breechface, or a filthy extractor. Or a combination of these factors.
Click to expand...

Thank you for responding. The ejector is filthy. I will clean the gun.

I also read that if you eject shells with muzzle facing downward, debris can fall from spent shells underneath the extractor making it seat improperly and causing a jam. I definitely turned the gun muzzle down to retrieve a few casings that didn't fully eject, and this wasn't super clean ammo. Could this have been a culprit?
 
Pisgah said:
Never heard of it happening with a .357, but "pre-Endurance Package" 29's firing maximum-charge heavy-bullet loads could develop a condition where the cylinder would unlock under recoil and actually rotate back one chamber, so that when the shooter cocked the hammer he was actually rotating the just-fired chamber back in to position for another go. I once had a 29-2 that would do this from time to time, and I fixed it by installing a heavy-duty cylinder stop spring.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the response. It's a 386, and the loads were no where near full charge.


There is a little bit of end shake, but nothing excessive. I will open the side plate and look at the springs.
 
I would bet money after the first shot, you didn't release the trigger enough to allow the cylinder to index, but enough to catch the hammer when you cocked it in single action mode again. You may be over thinking this, especially since you fired 50 or so shots afterwards and have been dry firing it without any similar mishaps. Good luck.
 
Mike in Reedley said:
I would bet money after the first shot, you didn't release the trigger enough to allow the cylinder to index, but enough to catch the hammer when you cocked it in single action mode again. You may be over thinking this, especially since you fired 50 or so shots afterwards and have been dry firing it without any similar mishaps. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Ok, now I understand. I believe this is what Wolverine was referring to above. This def appears to be the likely culprit.

Wolverine, sorry I didn't quite get it earlier.

Thanks for the help, gents! Looking forward to getting my DeSantis holster and some Underwood FBI loads so I can start carrying this bad boy. I'm completely in love with this thing!
 
The only time I got hit with something heavy...

....a lead slug bounced back off of a tree and hit me in the chest pretty hard. I didn't think the round I was shooting had enough power to bounce back but I was wrong. Moral: Don't shoot at live trees.
 
I am very interested in this subject as I have a new to me model 63 that is having an occasional light hammer strike, 1 out of 6 shooting single action, 2 out of 6 shooting double action.
Can this issue be attributed to operator error?
 
VAPA said:
I am very interested in this subject as I have a new to me model 63 that is having an occasional light hammer strike, 1 out of 6 shooting single action, 2 out of 6 shooting double action.
Can this issue be attributed to operator error?
Click to expand...

No. The above causes the an already fired round to be struck again. Light strikes can be attributed to a loose or short strain screw, a light hammer spring, a short firing pin or poorly seated primers. Possibly excess end shake (movement of the cylinder back and forth). First check that the strain screw is tight. Next with the cylinder open and the thumb latch held back and the trigger pulled that the firing pin sticks out of the recoil shield the thickness of a dime. (thanks to whoever posted this handy dandy gauge). If your strain screw is tight and firing pin sticks out you probably need a slightly longer strain screw, unless someone has replaced your hammer spring with one that is to light.

PS. In the future it is best to start your own thread in the Gunsmith section. ;)
 
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Bouncing bullets

rwsmith said:
....a lead slug bounced back off of a tree and hit me in the chest pretty hard. I didn't think the round I was shooting had enough power to bounce back but I was wrong. Moral: Don't shoot at live trees.
Click to expand...

I used to shoot at a range that had hard packed dirt/clay as a back stop. Several times a bullet would bounce back at a distance of 25 yards from target.
 
So, kind of the same thing happened again with this same gun. I just got it back from CS at S&W, had a "PC Tune Up, Clean and Oil" service done to the tune of $60 after the "PC Firearm Estimate and Range Test" to the tune of $45. I asked the guy on the phone if it was like with a car making a noise: you bring it in to the mechanic, but he can't recreate the noise, therefore there's nothing he can do. Guy on the phone said yes, it's just like that; if something was obviously wrong, it would be made right, otherwise there's nothing to be done.

Today I went to the range and shot two cylinders of .38 wadcutters SA, then shot three rounds of .357 in different loads in DA. Bang, bang, bang, click. (There was a few seconds in between as I was aiming.)

I swing out the cylinder to find three rounds fired, and the last round fired was indexed to the barrel, which means it was the last bang and click.

Earlier in this thread Wolverine and Mike in Reedley mentioned that I was short stroking the gun. Not sure that is possible when firing DA.

Look, I really don't want to send this back to S&W as I want this to be my primary carry. Besides, if something were obviously wrong, I'll assume for now that it was fixed. However, if it's gonna be my primary carry, I'd like to make sure it works.:)

What I'd like to do is create a set of bench tests to see if I can nail this problem down to either a specific chamber in the cylinder, or specific kind of ammo, or a specific action that I'm doing, or whatever else it might be. If it turns out there is something wrong, I will send it back.

I'm thinking:

Test 1
a) clean gun
b) shoot two cylinders of .38 DA
c) shoot two cylinders of .357 (load 1, AE 158g soft point (local range ammo)) DA
d) shoot two cylinders of .357 (load 2, BB 19F, 140g short barrel load) DA

Before running the tests I'd like to mark the cylinders (not permanently) to see whether or not malfunctions are happening in the same places. Any ideas on best way to do this? Any constructive criticism on how to change the above test?
 
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