Titanium v. steel cylinder
- Thread starter skipnsb
- Start date
TAROMAN
US Veteran
As for strength, its GTG with any SAAMI spec loads.
If you are wanting to explore the outer limits, better look elsewhere.
Ruger Super Redhawk, maybe?
Surface finish dictates that you be extremely careful in your choice of cleaning materials and methods.
I use i use only MPro7 on mine.
If you are wanting to explore the outer limits, better look elsewhere.
Ruger Super Redhawk, maybe?
Surface finish dictates that you be extremely careful in your choice of cleaning materials and methods.
I use i use only MPro7 on mine.
Tyrod
Member
This is a question I have as well.
Oh Titanium will suffer from stress fatigue before steel, but at what point if ever that would occur I have no idea. Steel ones blow up from over loads or last for 10S of thousands of normal loads. Maybe a titanium cylinder would fail under normal loads in 9S of thousands.
Never heard of it yet. Rest of gun probably wear out first
Never heard of it yet. Rest of gun probably wear out first
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Wee Hooker
Member
x2.
Personally, I don't like having to wory about what I use to scrub my cylinders.
I still own a 360 PD but that will likely be my last with a Ti cyl.
Too bad, I would really like a 986 but am going to hold out for an all SS version. Beyond the finish worries, I like the extra weight in my "non carry" purposed handguns.
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ggibson511960
Member
Fracture Toughness
The ability of a titanium alloy cylinder to withstand pressure is dependent on a bunch of stuff, geometry, alloy, heat treatment, all of which contribute to fracture toughness of the part in question. Fracture toughness of the metal is the biggest independent variable determining the cylinder's capacity to absorb pressure. The metallurgical properties of Ti alloy are all over the map, just like steel alloy, and dependent on a whole bunch of stuff, all of which S&W would consider a trade secrets. I doubt you could get S&W to admit that their blue steel cylinders are 4140 CrMo steel alloy (which everybody kind of assumes they are), much less what mystery metal the Ti alloy cylinders or parts are.
The ability of a titanium alloy cylinder to withstand pressure is dependent on a bunch of stuff, geometry, alloy, heat treatment, all of which contribute to fracture toughness of the part in question. Fracture toughness of the metal is the biggest independent variable determining the cylinder's capacity to absorb pressure. The metallurgical properties of Ti alloy are all over the map, just like steel alloy, and dependent on a whole bunch of stuff, all of which S&W would consider a trade secrets. I doubt you could get S&W to admit that their blue steel cylinders are 4140 CrMo steel alloy (which everybody kind of assumes they are), much less what mystery metal the Ti alloy cylinders or parts are.
Lou_the_welder
Member
Taroman mentioned the finish in brief but I thought I should mention this.
Titanium cylinders have a coating from the factory that can be removed with harsh chemicals and wire brushing. It's important that this coating stays on. Without it, the cylinder can be susceptible to cylinder erosion starting from the end where the force cone is. This makes titanium a delicate hard material that has it's benefits and downfalls.
Having said this I have a few with titanium cylinders and use mpro7 to clean. One cylinder has 4k rounds and still looks new.
Since I've switched over to mpro. Titanium care has been a non issue. And I would trust a titanium cylinder up to a 44 .
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Titanium cylinders have a coating from the factory that can be removed with harsh chemicals and wire brushing. It's important that this coating stays on. Without it, the cylinder can be susceptible to cylinder erosion starting from the end where the force cone is. This makes titanium a delicate hard material that has it's benefits and downfalls.
Having said this I have a few with titanium cylinders and use mpro7 to clean. One cylinder has 4k rounds and still looks new.
Since I've switched over to mpro. Titanium care has been a non issue. And I would trust a titanium cylinder up to a 44 .
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
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Tyrod
Member
Imagine this. A 38sp+P scandium k-frame with titanium cylinder and 3" tapered barrel. I'm sure It'd be mad expensive and probably too expensive for the discerning shooting in such a weak(?) caliber. I know there will be naysayers because of the low weight. But, considering the weight of some j-frames in this very same caliber, I see this is a non issue. Of course, since I'm off in fantasy land, I might as well wish for 1 more thing. A ball lock on the crane. I know they're mostly not necessary, but I think they're cool.
Titanium...get thee hence!
I've got two 329PDs and both suffered significant erosion from gas cutting on the face of the cylinder. S&W replaced the first one twice before I sent it in the third time and begged them to put a blackened stainless steel cylinder in, which they were good enough to do under warranty. Gained a fair bit of weight, but still OK for backpacking and is my main carry gun for the back country. But the gas cutting was ridiculous--even using ammo within the specs given, one of the cylinders was badly cut with less than 30 rounds fired. The second one still has the titanium cylinder and moderate cutting; just gave up and left it that way for when I want maximum lightness and don't anticipate firing unless emergency. I'd say they titanium is simply unfit for use at the .44 mag level.
I've got two 329PDs and both suffered significant erosion from gas cutting on the face of the cylinder. S&W replaced the first one twice before I sent it in the third time and begged them to put a blackened stainless steel cylinder in, which they were good enough to do under warranty. Gained a fair bit of weight, but still OK for backpacking and is my main carry gun for the back country. But the gas cutting was ridiculous--even using ammo within the specs given, one of the cylinders was badly cut with less than 30 rounds fired. The second one still has the titanium cylinder and moderate cutting; just gave up and left it that way for when I want maximum lightness and don't anticipate firing unless emergency. I'd say they titanium is simply unfit for use at the .44 mag level.
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Tyrod
Member
Wow, that is some incredible gas cutting. What I find most disturbing is that the cutting isn't consistent around the chamber. I wonder if the B/C gap is lopsided, which is quite common. Or possibly the titanium alloy wasn't completely homogenized.
Pisgah
Member
I have no qualms about the strength of titanium vs. steel. My personal objection to titanium -- and I emphasize that it is mine, and in no way think it should be shared by others -- is that the added cost and cautions about cleaning and care are not outweighed by the small savings in weight.
I don't know about cylinders, but some years ago I put a Titanium Hammer on a 1911. Doing a little final fitting with a stone, I find it cut very easily. About 10 years later, after reasonable amount of use the trigger pull kept getting lighter and lighter. When it dropped below 2 1/2 lbs I replaced it with a steel hammer & sear. I'm thinking it did not have good wear properties.
So I'm not the only one who has discovered this. Also, I find that the Ti cylinder model recoils much harder than the corresponding steel cylinder gun. I'm thinking specifically of the 340PD vs. the M&P 340. The steel cylinder J-frame guns (M&P 340) have fewer ammo restrictions.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
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I too wasn't sure about owning a revolver with a Ti cylinder because of some of the issues I have read about over the years. However, I recently decided to give them a try. I have purchased a 929 and a 986 (2.5" barrel) over the past few months. Nice guns! It will be interesting to see how they hold up over the years. I will be very careful when cleaning them.
Dave T
Member
My first objection to them is erosion. If you clean them vigorously and scratch or wear through the factory coating there is significant danger of the cylinder being eroded by firing hot or even standard ammunition.
My second objection is based on personal experience. Once upon a time I owned the 396Ti Mountain Lite. Following the recommended 200g bullet weight limit I shot the Speer's 44 Special Blazer load and that thing was brutal in the hand. Worse than any 44 Mag I've owned. Loading a 200g cast bullet to the same velocity as the Speer Blazer lead to the cleaning problems alluded to above.
Sometimes a gun can be too light and the Titanium cylinder models often fall into this category. With the Mountain Lite a rapid fire string that emptied the cylinder (only 5 shots) usually resulted in the gun moving and the firing grip being compromised. If I can't manage controlled doubles at speed then the gun is unsuitable for me.
YMMV,
Dave
Lou_the_welder
Member
929 and 986 pro.
929 north of 4k rounds with no signs of damage.
I know the titanium arguments. But on these guns- it works. No brainer. I just never cleaned these with hoppes and brass brushes. Just mpro and synthetic brushes. Gtg!
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
929 north of 4k rounds with no signs of damage.
I know the titanium arguments. But on these guns- it works. No brainer. I just never cleaned these with hoppes and brass brushes. Just mpro and synthetic brushes. Gtg!
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Cripes... I bought my 329PD used about two months ago and have already cleaned the cylinder with Hoppes, and used a copper brush on it. I'd better give it a close inspection tonight. I had no idea this stuff was an issue. I bought it to backpack with and not to shoot [much], so I guess I'd better stick to that plan.
329PD Titanium erosion
I have a Model 329PD and bought a Model 629 stainless steel aftermarket fluted cylinder to use instead of the titanium one. It was standard issue on the scandium-framed Backpacker 329 Alaska model with a 2 1/2 inch barrel, so I just went that route. It also looks cool against the black-anodized scandium alloy frame of the Model 329PD.
It adds just a few ounces and you still have a six-shot 44 magnum at your service.
I have a Model 329PD and bought a Model 629 stainless steel aftermarket fluted cylinder to use instead of the titanium one. It was standard issue on the scandium-framed Backpacker 329 Alaska model with a 2 1/2 inch barrel, so I just went that route. It also looks cool against the black-anodized scandium alloy frame of the Model 329PD.
It adds just a few ounces and you still have a six-shot 44 magnum at your service.
