Hi Guys,

Just wondering what people's recent experiences have been like with current production S&W revolvers?

A local gun store has a new production 627-5 Pro model available for $989. Aside from a slightly canted barrel, which seems to be a standard feature on all new smith wheel guns made in the past 10+ years, it looks pretty good with only a few scuffs to the satin finish. The only other imperfections of note are a few very minor nicks on the edge of the recoil shield, and the front sight extends past the end of the barrel a bit.

I've always wanted a 627 so I'm tempted to give this one a try, but I haven't had the best luck with S&W revolvers. Around 10-12 years ago I ordered two different s&w 625 revolvers (a year apart) and both had to be returned before transferring due to major defects right out of the box. About a year after that I decided to try again and bought a 617, but eventually s&w bought it back from me because it spit lead and they couldn't repair it.

At this point I'm just trying to gauge if their QC has improved at all over the past 10 years or gotten worse. I'm perplexed why they seem unable or unwilling to fix the canted barrel issue.

Uh, oh, here we go
again, round and round
and again and again.

__________________
Ubi Est Mea

You mean S&W has made revolvers since 1981????

No way. All of mine are older than that.

I've noted S&W quality tends to have its peaks and valleys. All my wheel guns were made in in the 80s and 90s. The only one that had any defects was a Model 18 that came out of the box with a rear sight that wouldn't adjust. I ended up just taking it to a local gunsmith to repair. Back during the days when S&W was a the wholly owned subsidiary of various foreign firms that were vehemently anti gun, quality waned, but it was mostly manifested in their semi autos as I recall. Not sure why the current QC problems exist, except for the possibility of demand exceeding manufacturing capability and lack of qualified craftsmen to assemble or at least oversee the machinery that performs the assemblies.

In the last 10 years I have bought 2 / 29-10 classic's, 2 / 29-3's used, 686, 627 pro, 586 classic, and not one had a mechanical or facial flaw. All are perfect.

Since any answer you get will be anecdotal, here’s my 2 cents worth. I sold off a bunch of guns a few years back to finance an even more expensive hobby. So, in an effort to replace some of the gaps in my accumulation, I’ve bought the following new guns since December: Python, King Cobra, Redhawk, 629, 686 Plus, and a 69. The first 3 on the list are pretty much perfect in terms of fit and finish. With the Smiths, the 686 has a couple of minor visible machining marks, but is otherwise great. The 69, which I got yesterday, has just one minor handling mark, and (unbelievably) a buggered rear site windage screw. I haven’t shot that one yet. The 629 has a slightly canted barrel, and some other minor flaws, but it shoots well, so I’m keeping it. Bottom line is that you need to give any of them a good looking over…just as it’s always been.

Skip that gun. Unless you can get a stellar deal. If I identified one flaw I would walk away.
You will have remorse knowing it needs to go back already

__________________
Romans5:8

The quality is good for what they currently making. if you like the model variations offered today then get one. They are never going back to hand fitting by in house gunsmith. And get one while they still willing to make them.The Smart gun is right around the corner.

manufacturing errors aren't new. I bought a new Model 63 in 1981. Got it home and the barrel lug that engages the ejector rod was off by at least 1/6 of and inch, allowing the crane/yolk to move laterally about the same amount. I was fortunate that the store I bought it from had another in the back and simply changed the serial numbers on my paperwork and let me go home with a good one.

__________________
Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

I’ve only purchased one new S&W J in the last several years & it had to go back b/c the cylinder slid off the frame when I tried to load it. When Glock came out w/their .380 I got one and could never get it to run reliably. My LCP2 had to go back for reliability issues. All three companies stood behind their product so I guess any of them can have issues.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

There are nice ones made today, but most have a couple of issues, some more serious and harder to fix than others. For modern production Smiths it's really like this: Check the gun thoroughly before purchase, and if there are flaws you cannot live with or fix, don't buy it and keep looking.

I the last 2 years I have bought a
686
629
610
all of them are flawless and shoot bullseyes all day long, I could not be happier.

I have a healthy mix of newer and older S&W revolvers in my stable. The new ones seem to be well made and have stood up well, and when I compare them to the Bangor Punta era revolvers, the modern ones are an absolute delight—both in terms of fit and finish.

I agree that if the gun you're looking at in the store doesn't appear to be perfect, then I wouldn't touch it. Assembly problems happen with every company, and I always make a point of looking any gun over thoroughly, even if it's new-in-box.

By the way, I've owned a few S&W's dating back to the 1800's that have had assembly errors. Hand fitting made for some good stuff, but it wasn't without its mistakes too.

And lastly: I've always had good luck with S&W standing by their products. I had a 986 that I bought used that had a few problems; a gritty action (even after being cleaned thoroughly) and a loose front sight. S&W paid the shipping in both directions and made the gun correct on their own nickel. Hard to complain about that.

Mike

I've have both new and old and find the quality to be equal. I think it boils down to the intangibles of personal preference. To my mind, the 1998 and earlier guns have a certain je ne sais quois the new guns just don't have and the newer guns have things that I don't care for... but that's just me.

__________________
213th FBINA

Well being a J frame hound anytime I am in a fun store I am always looking at what they have now days, and it is slim pickings in my area too. It seems, to find a current J frame that is perfect and I mean mechanically perfect, not some minor scratches or flaws in the coating which I don't care about cause I shoot my guns. Since they are not center pieces for discussions, it has been a challenge for me around here. If I find one that is what i call perfect from my favorite shop, I will buy it (cause he is the cheapest place to buy guns anywhere in my local area) even if I don't need it I can always sell it or trade it later if I don't want it or need it. I can pass it onto another J frame guy and know that he is getting a great J frame.. However, my issue at my dealer is he will only get 1 model in at a time, meaning he will have a 442, 642, 638, etc at once but no extras in the back to look over. Then some will be the no lock versions, the internal lock versions and so on so it is pain staking when I am on the prowl for a certain model. I am seeing about 1/3 of the current J's being what I call mechanically perfect and the others are showing issues from the counter and I wont buy them. With the wait to get stuff back from S&W and then being home to sign for it, its just too much hassle for me unless it is dirt cheap on my end when I bought it or is a J frame that is extremely hard to find or very rare.

I have come to the conclusion that Smith & Wesson probably hires whom ever they can get to work and most of them are not "gun" people and its just a job to them like any other millennial now days, and yes I speak from experience on this too. Not many people take pride in their work anymore and it is showing on all areas of what we purchase anymore but I am getting off topic (rant over).

To the original poster, if the gun is what you want and you cannot find another anywhere to look at and you really want it, call S&W and speak to them about what you need to do if you buy that gun since you already looked it over and the only thing you see is a canted barrel. If it is something you can live with, buy it but if not, keep looking. I will say this though, I absolutely will not buy a S&W revolver through the mail without being able to inspect it first. Good luck....

I have that gun except mine is the actual Performance Center model. Mine even has the slightly overclocked barrel feature ( free of charge) and I do notnown a more accurate 357 revolver, any caliber really. Its a proverbial laser. The barrel had to grow on me but it has and I really dig the look now, probably because it IS so accurate, and its a N frame 357, my favorite combo.

Not good, unfortunately. Recent purchase was a 686 Plus with 3" barrel. I never should've accepted delivery. It's taken quite a bit of work to get it up to where it should've been upon delivery.

Until quality improves, I will not be ordering any more new production revolvers from S&W (Airweight J frames being the exception; haven't seen any problems with them).

__________________
Centennial Every Day

MIM components seem to be the shrinkflation of the firearms industry.

Thanks everyone for the responses. It sounds like not much has changed at S&W in the past decade.

Several of you who commented basically said that if the gun I was looking at wasn't perfect then I should just pass on it and keep looking. Therein lies the problem! As best as I can tell, S&W doesn't make any perfect revolvers, at least not anymore. Even with the slightly canted barrel and overhanging front sight, and a few minor cosmetic blemishes, this gun is still put together much better than many new production s&w's I've seen in the past few years.

I guess at the end of the day I just need to decide if I can live with these defects or not. I know I could send it in to s&w for the canted barrel, but I've seen a number of forum members try doing just that who have received the gun back with minimal improvement or even a note that the gun is considered "in-spec".

Hmm, decisions, decisions... :-)

Quality is very very good. Quality control to make sure you didn't mess up the gun before shipping is not very good.

Never buy a gun with obvious QC problems. Point them out to the dealers so they can fix it themselves. Why use your time to return a gun?

So are mine.

There are plenty of older S&W's out there if you want something pretty to look at and shootable. I'd rather find something with honest wear defects (holster wear, hand-worn stocks, etc.) than a brand-new shiny gun with an off-center barrel or notchy action, from less-than-stellar QC.

Flame on; But I think 'Smith has just taken the last decade or so to perfect a Taurus...

Quality is overall very good, keeping with the times, some aspects are generally better (metallurgy) some aspects can be weaker (finish), but still very good. I would take a good deal on either old or new. We all have our preferences.

This year I picked up a 340pd and 43c. Both seem flawless. Years ago I had a 340sc that developed an issues with the finish. S&W took care of everything perfectly.

I am sure the S&W revolvers of today are OK. But if you want "Swiss Watch" quality, you need to go back at least 50 years to get it.

__________________
FBINA, 204th Session

I have both old and new and all work very well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here's my list:

M-629, 3 years ago. Good to go, no issues, outstanding accuracy
M-69, 2 years ago. Good to go, no issues, outstanding accuracy
M-69, 1-1/2 years ago, Good to go, no issues, outstanding accuracy
M-637, 5 years ago, cylinder locked up at less than 100 rounds, S&W serviced it in less than two weeks, Good to go, no issues since. Good accuracy
M-63, 1 year ago, Cylinder locked up in DA mode, less than 100 rounds, S&W serviced it, replaced cylinder, hand, trigger and did a trigger job, in 5 months. Good to go since, good accuracy.
M&P .22 Compact 3 weeks ago, Good to go, lousy trigger but improving, no other issues, very reliable and with good/great accuracy.

S&W customer service has been outstanding but the quality control people are letting a lot of guns through that wouldn't have left the factory years ago. Each of the above were shipped and fixed on S&W's dime with polite knowledgeable people on the phone answering questions.

Best Regards, Rod

__________________
Vote the bums out!

Find out how to inspect a revolver the way S & W used o and look it over VERY CAREFULLY.

I have several newer Smiths with no issues and shoot good. My older Smiths are good guns as well. But are definitely not more accurate.

__________________
balin
NRA Life Member

Bought a 629-6 that was made in December of 21 .
Fit and finish perfect.
Timing and lockup perfect.
Muzzle crown, forcing cone, and cylinder gap perfect.
Cylinder throats all at .429.5 .
Accuracy is excellent.
With all that said I would never buy a new one sight unseen.

I wouldn't buy an old one sight unseen either. I've seen a few S&W's that look like a beaver gnawed on them before leaving the factory. The Bangor Punta years in particular, but examples can be found from every era that should never have left the factory.

By and large S&W makes great stuff ... but like every company, a few turds slip out too.

Mike

I purchased a New Model 19 Classic from a pawn shop last year. Came in the blue box with all paperwork, was the second owner. Apart from the original owner trying to do work on the trigger for single action, I've had no problems what so ever.
I did send it back to S&W for repair, came back 3 months later free of charge. Shipping both ways was covered.

I'll just say that my experience has been otherwise and leave it at that.

Many people defend the new Smith & Wesson revolvers, but not me. I would never buy one. My newest gun is from the early 90s. Sorry to read of your troubles.

__________________
FBINA, 204th Session

Most of my Smiths are from the 1990s or early 2000s with the one exception of a 1981 66-1.

The newest Smith I've had experience with was a new 4" 586-8 "accidentally" won on auction in 2019. Quite a nice looking revolver is what I thought taking it out of the box.

The stamping group on the lower frame , "Made in USA" along with the 3 other lines was the weakest of any Smith or any other gun I ever owned.
Upon firing I had to move the rear sight way off center to the left to center things up. The SA pull had little bit of creep. Gun shot ok.

Shortly afterwards picked up a 4" 586-4 and first time out fired the best cylinder full at 50 yards in 30 years of revolver shooting. Had the 586-8 sold on consignment last year and actually made money on it , so a win - win!

Have a 6" 617-5 bought last year. It is from 2005 I believe. The fit , finish , lock up are among the best of any of my revolvers and it handily out shoots my older 4" 617-1. My most fired gun last year.

My newest production,a 2 1/2" 686-4, was made in 1995.
I looked over several newer production ones especially the 2.75" model 69 but all that I looked at in person didn't make the cut and definitely didn't meet my standard of acceptance.
Whoever was putting on the barrels needs retraining for starters.

__________________
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

There have been periods of "iffy" QC. The late 70s/very early 80s come to mind. I had a 66 snub back then with the entire rear sight set-up loose in the box, a NIB model 65 with a bulged bbl, and a snub 64 whose bbl was canted several degrees. I've done OK recently with 3 lovely 627s, one Pro and 2 PCs. Other guns, J-frames, have required a small amount of work by a 'smith.

It's especially difficult for those of use who remember the days when the company turned out 1000s of plain vanilla service revolvers and they were overwhelmingly flawless. The dozens that I handled certainly were. Nowadays, inspection by the prospective buyer is paramount.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

As someone that has worked in manufacturing and been a gun shooter/collector for over 50 years, I’m always amused by the “They were better back in the day" crowd.

They make the best revolvers in the world. You can buy cheaper than a S&W, but you can’t buy better. That’s not true of their semi-autos though.

However Customer Service and how a company handles a problem, if there is one, means a lot. For many years S&W was the Gold Standard all others were compared to when it came to customer service. They aren’t anymore, they are as bad as almost anyone you can name, because like all the others they just don’t care anymore. They will sell every gun that comes off the lines, just like Ruger, Glock, or anyone else. So customer support really doesn’t matter to the bean counters.

I have a 640 pro series with the high visibility night sights and no internal lock that has become my favorite J frame. I also have a 4 inch 617 .22 that has the internal lock, which isn’t objectionable to me because it’s is not a carry gun. Both are all stainless and IMO well made.

@Dave686

Do you really believe S&W still makes the best revolvers in the world?

I certainly don't. No offense, but your statement actually sounds laughable to me!

I'm pretty sure most everyone here would agree that Korth and Manurhin build a higher quality revolver than S&W, just as they should for 3-5x the price (or more) of a comparable S&W.

Colt is making some very nice double action revolvers again too. Aside from some minor production problems with early ones, their quality and consistency is a step or two above a modern S&W as well.

Even if you exclude Colt, Korth & Manurhin, I'm not convinced that S&W is still in a league above Ruger and Taurus. It seems that Ruger as a company has figured this out too, considering the MSRP for a basic stainless Ruger GP100 is now $1029 compared to MSRP of $893 for a comparable S&W 686. Gone are the days of Ruger being a lower cost alternative to S&W.

I do believe S&W is still CAPABLE of building quality revolvers, albeit without the fit and finish of their older ones. If you carefully look over enough of them you're bound to find some good ones among many that are subpar. Even when you do find a good one, be prepared for it to have a canted barrel/front sight and some minor finish issues.

As you said, Dave686, the main issues with S&W are their quality control and customer service. It used to be that if you were unlucky enough to get a bad gun at least you knew it would be fixed properly under warranty. Not any more! Many people are having to send guns in multiple times for the same issue. Nothing like adding insult to injury.

Nobody can build a revolver as good as s&w for the price of a S&W.

Colts cost nearly twice as much, with an insanely long trigger reset and a side plate that stops the trigger functioning if you don't tighten it often enough. I sold mine because I hated the trigger. Colt triggers are horrible to me.

The french and german guns go through so much testing and firing that if there were anything wrong, they would get fixed. Send your s&w to a custom shop.

S&W has a few rounds test fired and very basic specification checks. S&W could solve ALL of their problems if they cut multi million dollar salaries by a few percent, tightened tolerances, and did real QC. They don't need to because less than 1% of guns have these problems. Considering that sub 1%, they are still the best in the game, bar none. Best gun I own is a 66-8 with the new lockup

Any company with millions of dollars CAN make a better gun, including S&W. Manhurin and Korth make copies of s&w with upgraded parts, 10x as much labor, for 10% increase in performance. Let me know when any other revolver is recommended by everyone for everyone, and for every task.

Where are you getting this 1% figure?
Are you really suggesting that the other 99% of new production S&W revolvers have no manufacturing defects?

IF your statistic is true, I must be the most unlucky man alive. Nearly every new S&W revolver I inspect has some combination of either a canted barrel, poorly machined barrel crown, massive and/or uneven barrel to cylinder gap, peened cylinder stop notches, or other random build problems like a front sight that extends well beyond the end of the barrel. (Saw this last issue on a 627 I was interested in recently.) All of that is in addition to various cosmetic defects which are frequently also present.

To me, any defect is unacceptable. Especially if it is readily evident upon the first cursory inspection. If I could see it right off, so could a QC inspector. Barrel canting, poor crowning, sights that extend past the bbl etc, are just plain sloppy workmanship.

I am sure there are plenty of guns that that leave the factory in fine condition, but for my money, it has to be perfect.

__________________
Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

Of course. Why else would I have said it?
And Korth and Manurhin sounds laughable to me. Be serious. But hey, we all have our opinions.
I’ve owned three Pythons in my life. Nice revolvers. Wish I had them back, but only because of what they are worth now. I was shooting PPC at the time and I could shoot an L-frame better than a Python. That was me though, not the gun.
Didn’t they have a bunch of problems with the new Python, or possibly a recall? Seems I remember Hickok45 having issues while do a video on the new Python?
GAG has the Ruger in stock for $799, the 686 is in stock for $899. (If cost is your defining concern)
Ruger makes great revolvers. 2nd to S&W and light years ahead of anything I have seen from Taurus.
Very True.

I agree. And I’ll add that the “needs break in” to me is BS also. I bough a new Shield that jammed a couple of times in the first two mags I fired. That’s unacceptable for a Smith & Wesson. Back it went to S&W. I think turnaround was about 12 days. It was fixed and never had a problem since.

I owned several M&P LE series guns in .40S&W. I ordered a M&P C.O.R.E. Long Slide Performance Center in 9mm to use as the base for a target gun. Worst trigger I’ve ever seen on a semi-auto, right out of the box. Sent it back in and they sent it back saying there was nothing wrong with it. I wrote a letter to the Director of Firearms and mailed it. Got a call from a customer service guy telling me to send it back and assured me it would be fixed. Got it back with them saying it was “in spec”. If that gun ever went through the Performance Center it was on a cart passing through. So not only did I pay extra for a PC gun, I paid over $200 to put an Apex trigger on it. Only handgun I’ve ever had to replace a trigger on.

My wife and I both bought our S&W revolvers at the same place, same time in September of 2019.

Her Model 60 shoots two inch groups at 25 yards. My model 67 shoots basketball sized groups at the same distance (I'm being gracious here, some didn't even hit the target).

Difference? a 9mm bullet sized and measured at 0.356" won't pass through the chamber throats of my model 67-5, last year of production.

It's no longer under the warranty, so it's my dime to make it right.

Look at the bright side, unlike oversized throats, undersized chamber throats can easily be fixed by reaming.

__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA

I have been buying Smith & Wesson revolvers for close to 40 yrs.One thing I have noticed that since they sold out to Bangor Punta and the list goes on , quality has never been consistent.Despite the era they are capable of building an incredible flawless gun. They also manage to make some that should have never left the factory. Customer service and wait time on repairs has set the bar on slow turn arounds. In their defense ,the demand to fill orders for new guns has always been demanding. So you have to expect some mistakes will slip buy.Just carefully check before you buy.

I’ve returned much older revolvers to S&W for warranty service.

Give them a call and explain the issue and ask for an RMA. They should fix it and get it back to you fairly quickly.

Include a note explaining the issue in the box when you send it back.

I've bought 3 new ones in the past 3 years (a 617 4", a 686 4" and a 686+ 3") and all are great. No problems and I like the fit and finish of them. They're users and get frequent time in the holster, especially the 3" 686+ is almost my exclusive EDC anymore.

Inspect it carefully and you should be fine. I'm not a collector. I carry them and use them. A faint imperfection in the finish is not something i worry about to be honest. As soon as it gets carried it will have signs of wear and won't even be noticeable.