Quality on new S&W revolvers?

[Lowa]

@Dave686

Do you really believe S&W still makes the best revolvers in the world?

I certainly don't. No offense, but your statement actually sounds laughable to me!

I'm pretty sure most everyone here would agree that Korth and Manurhin build a higher quality revolver than S&W, just as they should for 3-5x the price (or more) of a comparable S&W.

Colt is making some very nice double action revolvers again too. Aside from some minor production problems with early ones, their quality and consistency is a step or two above a modern S&W as well.

Even if you exclude Colt, Korth & Manurhin, I'm not convinced that S&W is still in a league above Ruger and Taurus. It seems that Ruger as a company has figured this out too, considering the MSRP for a basic stainless Ruger GP100 is now $1029 compared to MSRP of $893 for a comparable S&W 686. Gone are the days of Ruger being a lower cost alternative to S&W.

I do believe S&W is still CAPABLE of building quality revolvers, albeit without the fit and finish of their older ones. If you carefully look over enough of them you're bound to find some good ones among many that are subpar. Even when you do find a good one, be prepared for it to have a canted barrel/front sight and some minor finish issues.

As you said, Dave686, the main issues with S&W are their quality control and customer service. It used to be that if you were unlucky enough to get a bad gun at least you knew it would be fixed properly under warranty. Not any more! Many people are having to send guns in multiple times for the same issue. Nothing like adding insult to injury.

Nobody can build a revolver as good as s&w for the price of a S&W.

Colts cost nearly twice as much, with an insanely long trigger reset and a side plate that stops the trigger functioning if you don't tighten it often enough. I sold mine because I hated the trigger. Colt triggers are horrible to me.

The french and german guns go through so much testing and firing that if there were anything wrong, they would get fixed. Send your s&w to a custom shop.

S&W has a few rounds test fired and very basic specification checks. S&W could solve ALL of their problems if they cut multi million dollar salaries by a few percent, tightened tolerances, and did real QC. They don't need to because less than 1% of guns have these problems. Considering that sub 1%, they are still the best in the game, bar none. Best gun I own is a 66-8 with the new lockup

Any company with millions of dollars CAN make a better gun, including S&W. Manhurin and Korth make copies of s&w with upgraded parts, 10x as much labor, for 10% increase in performance. Let me know when any other revolver is recommended by everyone for everyone, and for every task.

 

[pctech]

S&W could solve ALL of their problems if they cut multi million dollar salaries by a few percent, tightened tolerances, and did real QC. They don't need to because less than 1% of guns have these problems. Considering that sub 1%, they are still the best in the game, bar none. Best gun I own is a 66-8 with the new lockup

Where are you getting this 1% figure?
Are you really suggesting that the other 99% of new production S&W revolvers have no manufacturing defects?

IF your statistic is true, I must be the most unlucky man alive. Nearly every new S&W revolver I inspect has some combination of either a canted barrel, poorly machined barrel crown, massive and/or uneven barrel to cylinder gap, peened cylinder stop notches, or other random build problems like a front sight that extends well beyond the end of the barrel. (Saw this last issue on a 627 I was interested in recently.) All of that is in addition to various cosmetic defects which are frequently also present.

 

[Narragansett]

To me, any defect is unacceptable. Especially if it is readily evident upon the first cursory inspection. If I could see it right off, so could a QC inspector. Barrel canting, poor crowning, sights that extend past the bbl etc, are just plain sloppy workmanship.

I am sure there are plenty of guns that that leave the factory in fine condition, but for my money, it has to be perfect.

 

[Dave686]

@Dave686
Do you really believe S&W still makes the best revolvers in the world?

Of course. Why else would I have said it?

I certainly don't. No offense, but your statement actually sounds laughable to me!

And Korth and Manurhin sounds laughable to me. Be serious. But hey, we all have our opinions.

Colt is making some very nice double action revolvers again too. Aside from some minor production problems with early ones, their quality and consistency is a step or two above a modern S&W as well.

I’ve owned three Pythons in my life. Nice revolvers. Wish I had them back, but only because of what they are worth now. I was shooting PPC at the time and I could shoot an L-frame better than a Python. That was me though, not the gun.
Didn’t they have a bunch of problems with the new Python, or possibly a recall? Seems I remember Hickok45 having issues while do a video on the new Python?

I'm not convinced that S&W is still in a league above Ruger and Taurus. It seems that Ruger as a company has figured this out too, considering the MSRP for a basic stainless Ruger GP100 is now $1029 compared to MSRP of $893 for a comparable S&W 686. Gone are the days of Ruger being a lower cost alternative to S&W.

GAG has the Ruger in stock for $799, the 686 is in stock for $899. (If cost is your defining concern)
Ruger makes great revolvers. 2nd to S&W and light years ahead of anything I have seen from Taurus.

As you said, Dave686, the main issues with S&W are their quality control and customer service. It used to be that if you were unlucky enough to get a bad gun at least you knew it would be fixed properly under warranty. Not any more! Many people are having to send guns in multiple times for the same issue. Nothing like adding insult to injury.

Very True.

 

[Dave686]

To me, any defect is unacceptable.

I agree. And I’ll add that the “needs break in” to me is BS also. I bough a new Shield that jammed a couple of times in the first two mags I fired. That’s unacceptable for a Smith & Wesson. Back it went to S&W. I think turnaround was about 12 days. It was fixed and never had a problem since.

I owned several M&P LE series guns in .40S&W. I ordered a M&P C.O.R.E. Long Slide Performance Center in 9mm to use as the base for a target gun. Worst trigger I’ve ever seen on a semi-auto, right out of the box. Sent it back in and they sent it back saying there was nothing wrong with it. I wrote a letter to the Director of Firearms and mailed it. Got a call from a customer service guy telling me to send it back and assured me it would be fixed. Got it back with them saying it was “in spec”. If that gun ever went through the Performance Center it was on a cart passing through. So not only did I pay extra for a PC gun, I paid over $200 to put an Apex trigger on it. Only handgun I’ve ever had to replace a trigger on.

 

[Tim Stapp]

My wife and I both bought our S&W revolvers at the same place, same time in September of 2019.

Her Model 60 shoots two inch groups at 25 yards. My model 67 shoots basketball sized groups at the same distance (I'm being gracious here, some didn't even hit the target).

Difference? a 9mm bullet sized and measured at 0.356" won't pass through the chamber throats of my model 67-5, last year of production.

It's no longer under the warranty, so it's my dime to make it right.

 

[stansdds]

My wife and I both bought our S&W revolvers at the same place, same time in September of 2019.

Her Model 60 shoots two inch groups at 25 yards. My model 67 shoots basketball sized groups at the same distance (I'm being gracious here, some didn't even hit the target).

Difference? a 9mm bullet sized and measured at 0.356" won't pass through the chamber throats of my model 67-5, last year of production.

It's no longer under the warranty, so it's my dime to make it right.

Look at the bright side, unlike oversized throats, undersized chamber throats can easily be fixed by reaming.

 

[Laketime]

I have been buying Smith & Wesson revolvers for close to 40 yrs.One thing I have noticed that since they sold out to Bangor Punta and the list goes on , quality has never been consistent.Despite the era they are capable of building an incredible flawless gun. They also manage to make some that should have never left the factory. Customer service and wait time on repairs has set the bar on slow turn arounds. In their defense ,the demand to fill orders for new guns has always been demanding. So you have to expect some mistakes will slip buy.Just carefully check before you buy.

 

[John Patrick]

My wife and I both bought our S&W revolvers at the same place, same time in September of 2019.

Her Model 60 shoots two inch groups at 25 yards. My model 67 shoots basketball sized groups at the same distance (I'm being gracious here, some didn't even hit the target).

Difference? a 9mm bullet sized and measured at 0.356" won't pass through the chamber throats of my model 67-5, last year of production.

It's no longer under the warranty, so it's my dime to make it right.

I’ve returned much older revolvers to S&W for warranty service.

Give them a call and explain the issue and ask for an RMA. They should fix it and get it back to you fairly quickly.

Include a note explaining the issue in the box when you send it back.

 

[jcs266]

I've bought 3 new ones in the past 3 years (a 617 4", a 686 4" and a 686+ 3") and all are great. No problems and I like the fit and finish of them. They're users and get frequent time in the holster, especially the 3" 686+ is almost my exclusive EDC anymore.

Inspect it carefully and you should be fine. I'm not a collector. I carry them and use them. A faint imperfection in the finish is not something i worry about to be honest. As soon as it gets carried it will have signs of wear and won't even be noticeable.

 

[Lowa]

Where are you getting this 1% figure?
Are you really suggesting that the other 99% of new production S&W revolvers have no manufacturing defects?

IF your statistic is true, I must be the most unlucky man alive. Nearly every new S&W revolver I inspect has some combination of either a canted barrel, poorly machined barrel crown, massive and/or uneven barrel to cylinder gap, peened cylinder stop notches, or other random build problems like a front sight that extends well beyond the end of the barrel. (Saw this last issue on a 627 I was interested in recently.) All of that is in addition to various cosmetic defects which are frequently also present.

I own a black cat and I also have a supernatural level of bad luck. Any positive effect in my life must be corrected with a multiplied form of negative luck. I always recommend playing the odds because even the universe won't let you greatly defy them. 7s and snake eyes will only pop up so many times in a row.

The gun gods really don't like you. In gun stores weekly, revolvers fly off the shelves, showing new ones constantly, and I barely notice any defects. I trust my eyes, but maybe I should take a feeler gauge to the shops? My 66-8 and 19-9 are flawless, but my 686-1 is canted a degree and my 27-2 is nearly out of time. C'est la vie, as the frogs tell me.

 

[white cloud]

My wife bought a Model 67 about four years ago. Cosmetically and mechanically, it's a very nice revolver. This gun is really accurate also. I bought a 640 Pro two years ago. It had to go back for work but came back very nice. It's a keeper.

The worst S&W I have ever owned was a late 1970s Model 27. The next worse was a similar vintage Model 34. Both of these got traded off. In retrospect, I should have kept them and had them fixed.

The best finished S&W I have ever owned is a middle 1970s Model 36. This is a good shooter and is cosmetically excellent.

You pays your money and you take your chances. S&W has produced great revolvers and still does. They have also made some bad ones and continue to do so. My advice is not to purchase any firearm unseen. If the firearm has obvious problems, reject it. Firearms are long term purchases.