Hey folks,

I just purchased this revolver: https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/n-frame-163638

I'm using it for bear protection.

What is the maximum grain/type of ammo that I can use?

Example: Can I use these.... Heavy .44 Magnum 44A, 44D?

Can I use flat nose ammo?

Also, what is the muzzle velocity of this revolver?

Thanks,

Techsent

I am assuming you Mean Buffalo Bore 4a (305gr) and 4d (340gr +p+). If that's the case, you should be able to use the 4a in your new 629 (limited use only - otherwise it will beat the gun up). Buffalo Bore doesn't include the S&W M629 for use with their 4d load - so no you can't use it. If you click "more info" in the specific cartride section it will show vel from various bbl lengths and guns that it can be used in. Velocity will be individual gun specific - with that in mind:

Here are some actual guns/chronograph results for Buffalo Bore's 4A load:

Buffalo Bore, 305 LBT LFN HC rated 1,325 fps
Underwood, 305 LFNGC Plated (HiTech?) rated 1,325 fps
LabRadar muzzle velocity at 33 deg F
S&W M69 2.75" ===> BB 1,195 fps ===> Under 1,147fps
S&W M69 4.25" ===> BB 1,276 fps ===> Under 1,248 fps
Ruger SRH 7.5" ===> BB 1,395 fps ===> Under 1,315 fps

FWIW,

Paul

Go to Hodgdon's site and reloading data. All their data is with a pressure barrel, no barrel/cylinder gap, so you lose 75-100 fps.

A word of warning, there is reputable data out there that is OK for Ruger Redhawks etc and is NOT recommended for Model 29s etc.

If you want more power than the 29/629 can give you, go to the .454 Casull. If you want considerably more, the S&W 500 Mag is it. Don

Thanks for the great info Paul. Yes. I was looking at the buffalo bore. Since 4D is too powerful, I'll go with 4A and also try Underwoods 305 grain. I wish S&W engineers would publish their test firing results showing which brands/types of ammo they used during pre-production because it would be a helpful guide.

Techsent

Garrett Cartridges Inc. 44 mag .45-70 .44 ammo ammunition bullets african hunting cartridges and Lost River Ammunition Company are two other sources of botique .44 mag ammo. The first has been around for a long time, the other a bit newer. Both are high quality and are more than happy to answer any questions you may have.

Paul

Paul

It's kinda a given that S&W N frames are good for magnum bullets
under 300 grains.

Above that, go to an X frame or a Ruger.

Remember, the N frame was designed 100+ years ago to be the big buffalo in non magnum cartridges and evolved without getting stronger
into handling .357, .41, 44 magnums.

The bullet weight isn't that critical. The velocity of that bullet is what matters. Pressure = Velocity. I have shot hundreds of 300 grain lead and jacketed bullets out of my 629 over a lot of years, and it's still doing great.

Those bullets are only doing 1050 FPS at the muzzle, though, just subsonic. The ballistic chart I have says they are still doing 900 FPS at 200 yards, which is the furthest distance I shoot them at.

If I tried shooting those at 1400 FPS, for example, I would blow up the cylinder in one shot. It takes a lot more pressure to get that extra FPS.

__________________
protocalldesign.com

S&W builds revolvers to meet SAAMI specification and as such does have any need to test ammunition results. The only need to use ammunition that meets the cartridge specification of SAAMI.

The Buffalo Bore ammunition with "+p+" is not a SAAMI designation for 44 Magnum cartridge.

__________________
be safe
Ruggy

Pressure=Velocity is not a correct assessment.

Velocity is a function of total pressure under the curve, not Peak pressure.

Peak pressure is the fundamental concern in firearm construction.

__________________
be safe
Ruggy

I didn't say Peak pressure. Total pressure under the curve still works with that general rule of thumb.

In general terms, it takes more pressure to get more velocity.

__________________
protocalldesign.com

It is not all about pressure.

Sometimes boutique ammo companies will offer "Ruger only" loads. These are typically loaded with high pressures but are also too long to fit into the cylinder of a S&W 44. Ruger 44s have longer cylinders and seating the bullet further forward reduces pressure. And a heavy Ruger revolver is going to be better able to handle the power and pressure of this ammo even if it short enough to fit in a S&W cylinder.

Avoid anything labeled +P or "Ruger only".

Of the two loads you mentioned the BuffaloBore website says the first one is fine for your gun but I wouldn't want to shoot a lot of them.

The second one is not. There website is very specific about this stating that "We get hundreds of emails asking if this load can be fired in S&W revolvers or some firearm other than what is in the above list. The answer is NO.".

Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ Pistol and Handgun Ammo

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate your excellent knowledge........

I was looking at the s&w 500 pre-covid/inflation but decided not to buy because the ammo was already too pricey for my budget. I ended up buying the .44 because I can buy relatively cheap bulk ammo for practicing plus I also have a henry big boy tube fed .44 which is really helpful when buying/sharing ammo. I queried Henry on using the +p+ and that's a no go too. I was also disappointed that I can't load the Flat Nose style in the Henry but relieved that I can with the s&w revolver.

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Hi Patrick,

Thank you for owning a Henry rifle.

The ammunition you linked to has 340-gr. WFN bullets. Do not use these.

Avoid using wadcutters and semi-wadcutters, WFNs (Wide, Flat Nose), and ballistic-tipped ammunition. These are known to cause feeding/jamming issues in our tube-magazine-fed rifles, due to the non-standard-profile bullets. Also, .44 Magnum rounds with 300+ grain bullets are too large to cycle reliably through the Big Boy action and may possibly suffer accuracy degradation as well due to the bullet being too large and heavy.

Henry Big Boys chambered for .44 Magnum can use any reputable, good-quality brands of factory standard or +P loads of .44 Magnum or .44 Special which have standard profile bullets (lead or semi-jacketed round-nose, semi-jacketed or jacketed flat-nose, and hollow-point) up to a maximum projectile weight of 270-grains.

FMJ bullets are ok if they have flat tips or noses, or hollow points. Round noses are OK with soft-point bullets (non-FMJ).

We do not recommend any (+P+) ammunition be used in any Henry rifle. Henry rifles are not designed for these overpowered loads. Standard +P is plenty strong for any usage appropriate to the caliber/cartridge design.


Thank you for letting me help you today

Regards,

Jeffrey Post
Technical Customer Service
Customer Service: (866)200-2354

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Garrett Cartridges looks like an excellent source for the revolver. I emailed them and Ashley responded with...

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All except for the 330's, they're too long. The 310HH has the most killing potential for your Model 629 as it was specifically designed to take advantage of the length of the M29 cylinder. It is the most effective load, operating at standard pressure, available from anyone for the M29/629 series of guns.

Thanks for your interest,

Ashley


On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 11:16 PM Patrick O'Brien <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,

I have this Smith & Wesson 629 Classic 44 Mag 6.5 Inch Revolver
Smith & Wesson 629 Classic 44 Mag 6.5 Inch Revolver - Omaha Outdoors

Can this gun use any of your ammo listed here
Garrett Cartridges Inc. ?

Thanks,

Patrick

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I'm going to buy 4 boxes of their 310HH and ship that out here to California for my camping trip in August.

At this point, I'm thinking 310 grain may be close to the proven max for this revolver.

Techsent

Ashley Emerson - Garrett Cartridge is an absolute GEM!
.
Ted at Lost River also offers a 300gr at 1,100 fps - he tested these in a 5" M29 (the shorter blued version of your 629). Not much that load will not handle and at that velocity recoil is moderate. Garret's ".44 Mag Defender" is another moderate 300gr load that should be reasonably easy to shoot and really penetrate.

I know everybody is all about velocity but these lower velocity 300gr loads are a lot easier on the gun/shooter, and really pack a punch.

FWIW,

Paul

My 300 gr. load at 1050 fps is mild recoil, about like a 44 special. It groups about 5 to 6 inches at 200 yds., smaller groups closer in.

__________________
protocalldesign.com

Sorry, but is about pressure -

If a cartridge cannot be chamber in the gun the issue is mote.
It does not meet the SAAMI cartridge standard for the firearm it was intended (assuming the firearm is manufactured to those standards).

If a manufacture is exceeding cartridge design standard pressure, catastrophic failure of the firearm is possible.

We have industry standards for good reason, your safety.

__________________
be safe
Ruggy

You're link shows the M629 with 6 inch barrel that tips the scales at just under 50 ounces. That's pretty much the epitome of what Elmer Keith's work on heavy .44 loads had in mind.

When the .44 magnum was introduced the basic load used a 240 grain bullet swaged into a copper "half-jacket" and had a "soft nose" (You don't hear that term much any more). Remington, in concert with S&W didn't just orbit their collective fingers over a circle of different bullet weights to come up with that number, it was derived from real-world data that's impossible to duplicate today.

"True magnum power" is defined as one-kilojoule of ballistic energy at 1,300 fps. ANY genuine .44 magnum load fired from a barrel four inches or longer exceeds one kilojoule, and depending on barrel length, 240 grain loads range from 1.2 - 1.4 KJ. From a 6 inch barrel expect to easily meet or exceed Underwood's published velocity numbers.

Underwood lists a 305 grain load and a "+P" 340 grain load that reaches 2.0 KJ of energy. let's dismiss the 340 grain load because it's imparting 35% MORE breech thrust than a top .44 magnum load. I would not shoot such a load in any .44 magnum I cared about, I would instead choose a .460 or .500, both of which easily out-power the .44 magnum - more on that point in a moment...

As for the 305 grain load, it's putting 21% more stress on the breech for a return in "power" of just 15%. When we have the 255 grain delivering 1.4 KJs at 1,325 fps (probably more from the 6"), and the 255 grain will shoot clean through a bear, a moose, an alligator, etc., of what practical value or need is that extra 50 grains of bullet? (the weight of a single .25 bullet)?
To shoot the 305 grain load is to needlessly place more strain on your gun, subject yourself to more recoil, and derive absolutely nothing you needed in terminal performance from it! (Other than bragging about shooting 305 grainers versus those pitiful, weak 255 grainers!). A better approach would be to bump the 255 grain up another 100 fps to extend shockwave distance.

Back to breech thrust: When a fixed breech revolver is fired, the bullet goes screaming down the barrel trying to rip it clean off the front end due to tremendous friction between bullet and bore driven by expanding gas. At the same time an equal and opposite pressure shoves against the recoil shield trying to blow the back out of the gun - the steel in the middle is placed under a high tensile load which just so happens to be one of steel's best strengths, but every single time that gun goes boom, the forces in play are trying to snap that top-strap and, over some number of shots, leads to frame stretching, and last time I checked nobody has built a revolver that can't be blown up, which means nobody has built one that can't be dimensionally altered by the use of extremely heavy loads. Granted, most sane people probably never shoot more than a box or two of the hottest loads, but when you break down the numbers it's quite clear even shooting 305 grain loads is needlessly stressing the frame for very little power gain, when all available "standard weight" bullets are more than powerful enough to handle the job.

As a hand loader there is a very simple "rule" I apply when considering load development. Take the so-called "standard load" and multiply bullet weight x velocity, then divide by the desired, higher weight bullet and you're looking at the velocity that produces the same recoil stress on the breech. This simple formula can save a gun from being blown up because if we load to the resultant velocity number, we're not just holding the line on strain on the frame, but we're also limiting pressure. With a little checking you'll quickly find a direct correlation between this formula and factory ammo, especially ammo for moving breech firearms that need to operate within a reliability parameter.
For example, the original .44 magnum load was 1,400 fps / 1,044 fpe (1.4 KJ) from a long barrel. Using that as a baseline:
1,400fps x 240gr. / 255gr. = 1,317 fps which is just 8 fps less than Underwood's published number for their 255 grain hard cast.
To match breech thrust the 305 grain load should be limited to around 1,100 fps, (1.1 KJ) and the 340 grain limited to 988 fps / 737 fpe (1.0 KJ). By hand loading the 340 grain could be safely pushed to 1,100 fps / 913 fpe (1.2 KJ). Of course we see these loads give up the value of supersonic shock wave impact which the early pioneers of magnum loads certainly observed and exploited by biasing their load development toward speed over added mass.

You will see the developers of magnum handgun rounds kept the standard bullet weights, experimenting with higher velocities and bullets shapes more effective at transferring shock. In the first half of the 20th century the true nature of air molecules compressed to and beyond the speed of sound was not known, but what they had observed was that blunt nose bullets impacting above, to well above the speed of sound had a much more immediate effect than bullets impacting at subsonic speeds. This was not easily quantified because the moment a bullet leaves the barrel it is slowing down and pistol profile bullets accelerated beyond the speed of sound slow down very quickly due to the high drag created by a "cone" of incompressible air molecules radiating outward from the nose and shoulder edge, or even nose ogive. The faster a handgun bullet is going on impact with a juice-filled target, the more violent is the effect of the supersonic shockwave - seen in milk jugs and wallermelons as complete vaporization, and in body shots on animals as an immediate collapse due to neural shock caused by the shockwave radiating throughout the body, or seen in hits to boney areas such as skulls and joints and explosive destruction from both shockwave and the kinetic energy imparted. Bullet shock can cause an animal to collapse - much like a hit from a Taser, even though the bullet didn't create an immediately mortal wound. We see it in the hunting field all the time - the animal is hit by the supersonic bullet, goes down, then within seconds is back up running for the hills - the bullet DID shock the animal, the hunter failed to strike anything immediately lethal or incapacitating.

Doubling velocity quadruples kinetic energy - a round worth looking at is Underwood's Lehigh Defense "Penetrator" solid copper 220 grain with the "screwdriver nose" loaded to 1,530 fps / 1,144 fpe (1.5 KJ) (conforms almost spot on with the "rule" described above).

Magnum ballistics do not apply to low-power handgun rounds used in self defense shootings as most have less than 400 joules of energy and are subsonic - hence the notion that the bullet must auger out a hole sufficiently to damage enough tissue to cause incapacitation.

Just a little food for thought coming from someone who’s spent considerable time in bear country, much of it packing a 4” 629. And having shot and seen shot a good number of bears both black and brown.

Maximum power doesn’t matter nearly as much as bullets in the right place. I once shot a 250gr cast bullet doing 1175fps through around 4 feet of a bear.

Find something you can shoot without beating yourself and your gun up and shoot a bunch of it. Get good shooting DA and go forth with confidence.

Does anyone shoot the PPU 300gr. SJFP or Hornady 300 gr. in their 44 Magnum S&W 629?

Once again fire power is fine accuracy is final. The chances that another 100 fps or 50 more grains will change the out come no mater where the bullet lands is really really small. A load and bullet that will go through 4' of bear does not need improved upon.

IF THAT DON'T WORK, YOUR ABILITY TO SHOOT IT IS WHAT NEEDED IMPROVEMENT.

Summary, a standard 44mag (approx 240-250 grain) will do all you need it to do. There is no reason to beat yourself or the gun up to get that little extra.

Standard ammo will be cheaper and you will be able to practice more and have less flinch.

Rosewood

Instead of worrying about power, you would be best served to practice under stress. Do some running or jogging at the gun range then pick up your gun and shoot at a target off hand and make sure you can hit the boiler room on an equivalent sized target.

Rosewood

I have shot a lot of 300 gr. Hornady XTPs in my 629. They are super accurate and carry a lot of energy, even at lower velocity. I'm shooting them at about 1050 fps. The recoil is mild. I've shot 120 of them in a day with no effects from recoil either during or after shooting. They take down 54 pound steel rams at 200 meters (218 yards) with authority.

__________________
protocalldesign.com

Subsonic easier on the ears also.

In post #18,I should have stated factory loads. I no longer reload and have to purchase factory ammo.

OP,


Bear this in mind that you actually have to be able to shoot quickly and accurately during a stressful encounter.

It will not make any difference if your projectile is going 1000 fps or 1200 fps, if you are missing your shots, or your recovery time is slow, due to too much recoil.

Having participated in many bear drill exercises, I have observed time and time again, where guys show up with maximum loads in .44 Mag, .45 Colt, 454, .500 Smith, etc.

It is exceeding rare that they can get 3 rounds off into the vital zone/head shot, in the different targets (simulating a bear coming towards you) They normally get one, and the next might get on paper, and the third is rarely even shot before the buzzer signals stop. The last target is a small tile that you have to hit and most don't when using top end loads.

For revolvers, guys using mid levels load in .44 Magnum, .45 Colt tend to do substantially better. A .300 grain .44 is fine, but not at "Ruger Only" level. Same with .45 Colt.

You can still get all the penetration you need, but will be able to perform better.

As an example, A few years back I shot a 5x5 bull elk with a 5" Model 29 .44 Magnum. I was using a 300 grain hardcast bullet with a velocity of around 1100 FPS.

I got complete penetration on a broadside shot and never recovered the bullet. The elk did the usual stagger steps, walking a few feet, before kind of turning in a circle, then he tipped over dead. The range was a bit over 100 yards.

The point of the mention of the elk is that you don't need the hottest loads. In fact they can be counter productive. Find a balance.

I've used both Underwood's 305 gr Hard Cast Keith's (with excellent results)... I've used PRVI's Partizan's 300gr ammo with (extremely good & results in Silhouette Shoots) out to 100 Yards... The same goes for Buffalo Bore's 305gr loads out of my Performance Center M629 3" barreled Stainless .44maggie.

If I were to be in Alaska this this baby would be on my hip. The only thing I would do besides being fit for a chest rig is I'd love to have her cylinder fitted for Moon-Clips. The reload time with Full-Moons such as I had on my M625 was amazingly fast and the profile of a "Keith-Bullet" cartridge just seems to magically align and fall into place.

That said if I were to be out fishing or doing outdoors hunting/sports I'd have my Ruger M44 semi-auto carbine strapped to my back or a port arms when sensing danger. That puppy loaded with 4+1 of the same ammo will send a 305gr Hard Cast Keith out of the 18.5" barrel at over 1,800 fps and hits harder than anything else I have in my house. It was deforming my AR-500 plate at 75Meters and again at 100Meters... We had to move it out to 150Meters to stop all signs of crater-ing is just how hard that round hits out of a Carbine. I'd think it would get the attention of anything coated in fur rather quickly.

-Hams

Finally, He(( Yes... A 250gr Hard Cast "Keith" pill at 1,175 FPS is a Beautiful Remedy for a Nasty bear or anything else on the rag!

Keep pumping them if you can for further positive results. Unfortunately 1-2 shots is the most anyone gets according to published actual accounts of real encounters as these Apex Prediators are very fast. I'd never go anywhere without at least 1 Buddy, (my wife at very least), and preferably another Buddy with his wife too: ALL of us armed and proficient with popping caps and extremely comfortable & happily doing so out in The Great Outdoors... I/We don't go anymore just the wife and me after an unfortunate incident. We go 4 or more now to explore, hike, kayak, fish, in North Georgia/North Carolina now days. Jeeps, 4Runners, and Land Rovers getting to and from sites is another topic but needed as well.

-Hams

Ummmmm... YeAH! I most certainly shoot the PRVI... That is about the very best "Do it All Ammo" that I can find in this caliber. It's Clean Burnin', Very Accurate, Full-Powered, and Nice Brass'd cased ammo for reloading. It hits HARD-er than your ugly mother in-law's insults as well...

Hewl-Yes! That is the best answer yet in this thread...

We were out in Highlands NC where we were semi-accosted on a trail with Streamlight Flashlights were going "Tits-uP" me, my daughter, and my 2nd daughter a 4 year old and Beefy German Shepherd Dog... When something/someone started "Paralleling" us HARD. This was and is the only time said GSD was ever scared. I kept the .44Maggie and one Streamlight at 45* while my baby (10 year old) kept the other on the trail as we jogged fervently ahead... Paying attention to keep our footing and most certainly "Praying to The Big Guy" that last half mile home...

I don't know what it was but it was bigger than my 6'2" & 255lbs *** and made no contention about being quiet about it's size while paralleling us. We made it home and rushed inside for the night.

It was a long night as we kept hearing brushes against the cabin and some hard beating thumps until about 6am. Everything ended then and thankfully so.

Nothing else has been even close to us but being in shape and being able to roll with the punches is important.

-Hams

I've shot the same Rams @ 100 Yards with the same authority with just the lovely M629-5 equipped with the 3" barrel... Member's here will tell you the same...
That flaT point hits so darned hard! The profile is so destructive to flesh, bone and sinew...