Has anyone seen this problem - 351PD

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Talldog

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This gun was purchased new in February, but thanks to a broken ankle immediately thereafter, it wasn't fired until April. I keep meticulous logs, and it had 277 trouble free rounds through it, getting cleaned after every range trip. Ammo is exclusively CCI Maxi Mags and Hornady Critical Defense.

Three days ago, I took it to the range, and after firing a cylinder, I couldn't eject the cases. I ended up having to bang the ejector rod on the table hard to get the cases half way out, and it was a &%$^ to get them the rest of the way out. I lubed the cylinders with Breakfree CLP and fired 2 more cylinders with exactly the same results.

I brought the gun home and cleaned it thoroughly. I dropped a Maxi Mag, then a Hornady cartridge in all 7 cylinders, and saw no problems. Went back to the range yesterday, and had the same results. This time, I had a dowel and a hammer with me. 3 cartridges pushed out easily, 2 pushed out with more difficulty, and 2 I had to use the hammer. Same results with both Hornady and Maxi Mags.

My wife has the same gun, purchased at the same time, build dates within a couple weeks of each other. She fired a cylinder from each of my boxes of ammo and had no problems, so it's obviously the gun.

I'll be calling S&W in the morning, and I'm sure they'll take care of it, but I'm wondering if anyone has seen this problem. It just doesn't make sense that after almost 300 flawless rounds this just comes out of nowhere.
 
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Only nearly everyone that has ever owned a rim-fire S&W revolver! The charge holes are notorious for being too straight having no "draft", which results in hard extraction. Sometimes there are exceptions like your wife's gun!

This can often be cured by polishing the charge holes or buying a chamber reamer. The reamer will have a slight bit of draft and will introduce a slight taper to the charge holes.

I don't understand why S&W has not done anything to correct this issue as it has existed for over 50 years on all rim-fire models!
 
Narragansett said:
I do not disagree with the above tight chamber diagnosis, but why 277 rounds before this happened. :confused:
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From his description this was not 277 rounds in a single range session but several over the period since he bought the gun, and it was cleaned every time he took the gun out to shoot it! Apparently not fired enough to cause a significant issue before. The 277 rounds is not a factor.

I have been shooting for about 65 years, beginning with being on my R.O.T.C. rifle team through high school. I have been gunsmithing for most of that time, since graduating from the gunsmithing program at then Trinidad State Jr. College, and have worked in the industry on and off since then.

What I do not understand is why some people are so anal as to keep a log of rounds fired from a gun, especially from a rim-fire! If he had said "about 250-300 rounds" would have been believable, but precisely 277? How many keep a detailed log of every mile they drive their cars? Very few.
 
Thanks for the responses. These are the first S&W revolvers we've ever owned, and we were unaware of this issue. I'm not a revolver guy at all, and until now my wife has owned strictly Rugers with the exception of one Charter Arms a few years back. She has had 3 LCR and LCRx .22 magnums that have never had this problem through many thousands of rounds. I wouldn't have expected this from a premium priced gun like the Smith, but now I know, and thanks again.

Alk8944 said:
What I do not understand is why some people are so anal as to keep a log of rounds fired from a gun, especially from a rim-fire! If he had said "about 250-300 rounds" would have been believable, but precisely 277? How many keep a detailed log of every mile they drive their cars? Very few.
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Before this, I've shot semi-autos almost exclusively. No matter what the brand fanboys say, many of them, especially the rimfires, have problems of one sort or another at various times. Knowing the problem frequency, round count, ammo brands, which mags are being used, etc. is very helpful when things start to go wrong, especially when I trust my life to many of these guns. I enjoy shooting and I find value in keeping this information. What I do not understand is why you felt the need to take time out of your life to compose a rude comment about something that doesn't concern or affect you at all.

As far as believable, you can believe whatever you want. My first range trip with this revolver was 150 rounds, the second was 70 rounds and the third was 57 rounds. All three trips had zero problems. My last two trips had the problem on the very first cylinder. Not exactly normal behavior, even for a known problem.
 
Something happened between the last good range trip and the next bad range trip. Im thinking your cleaning routine? You did mention putting CLP in the chambers - but you didn't mention cleaning / drying out the chambers. The introduction of oil, lubricant or whatever you put in a chamber must be cleaned dry before the next range session. The tip about the reamer would also be appropriate. I would include some fired cases with the gun if you send it back.
 
Alk8944 said:
What I do not understand is why some people are so anal as to keep a log of rounds fired from a gun, especially from a rim-fire! If he had said "about 250-300 rounds" would have been believable, but precisely 277? How many keep a detailed log of every mile they drive their cars? Very few.
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Shot logs are fairly common on precision rifles, but that's a whole different ball game. Can give you an idea on when you might want to start saving up for a new barrel.
 
ken158 said:
Something happened between the last good range trip and the next bad range trip. Im thinking your cleaning routine? You did mention putting CLP in the chambers - but you didn't mention cleaning / drying out the chambers. The introduction of oil, lubricant or whatever you put in a chamber must be cleaned dry before the next range session.
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After the cylinders are clean and dry, I run a patch with CLP through each chamber, followed by a dry patch. The point is so that the chambers aren't quite bone dry. This is the routine my wife has been following with her Rugers for years.

ImDrRichard said:
Have you tried different ammo?
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I only use the Hornady and Maxi Mags, which are two of the highest quality brands available. I did use different boxes, and my wife's 351PD had no problem with any of it.

steelslaver said:
Worked fire, then cleaned with CLP and left to sit for months.
I would suspect that the CLP did something to chambers. It has an aluminum alloy cylinder correct.
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After the last successful range session, it sat for a couple of weeks before I cleaned it, then less than 2 weeks until the first bad session. I brought it home and cleaned it the same day, and back to the next bad session 2 days later.
 
"This gun was purchased new in February, but thanks to a broken ankle immediately thereafter, it wasn't fired until April. I keep meticulous logs, and it had 277 trouble-free rounds through it, getting cleaned after every range trip. Ammo is exclusively CCI Maxi Mags and Hornady Critical Defense.

Three days ago, I took it to the range, and after firing a cylinder, I couldn't eject the cases. I ended up having to bang the ejector rod on the table hard to get the cases halfway out, and it was a &%$^ to get them the rest of the way out. I lubed the cylinders with Breakfree CLP and fired 2 more cylinders with exactly the same results.

I brought the gun home and cleaned it thoroughly. I dropped a Maxi Mag, then a Hornady cartridge in all 7 cylinders, and saw no problems. Went back to the range yesterday, and had the same results. This time, I had a dowel and a hammer with me. 3 cartridges pushed out easily, 2 pushed out with more difficulty, and 2 I had to use the hammer. Same results with both Hornady and Maxi Mags.

My wife has the same gun, purchased at the same time, and build dates within a couple of weeks of each other. She fired a cylinder from each of my boxes of ammo and had no problems, so it's obviously the gun.

I'll be calling S&W in the morning, and I'm sure they'll take care of it, but I'm wondering if anyone has seen this problem. It just doesn't make sense that after almost 300 flawless rounds this just comes out of nowhere."

The problem you're describing is universal with nearly all calibers with respect to the Revolver and various models, and ... plus, it's not exclusive to S&W ... it can happen with Colt, Ruger, and other brands as well. Furthermore, it can happen with Aluminum, Steel, and Titanium cylinders. Also, I wouldn't be so hard-pressed against your 351 PD as you mentioned that it wasn't a problem until now, and after ejecting 200 plus rounds flawlessly. And most likely the problem is from a combination of cleaning lubricant/carbon combination buildup along with a heated cylinder which causes the empty brass to stick. I would hold back for now, and call the S&W Tech. Dept and find out what they recommend or the procedures to rectify the problem. Also, I don't think it's necessary to polish the Schitt's Creek out of your 351 PD. I am guessing that there was a good amount of cleaning residue in the chamber when you hit the range this last time. You also may have noticed and felt that your chambers were fairly dry and clean, but know that temperature changes can change the viscosity of oil and any excess amount (that you're un-aware of) might have caused it to flow and spread itself in the cylinder chambers. Details, details. Honestly, there is no need to worry, but I can understand that it can be really annoying. Lastly, it will not be long before the issue is resolved.
 
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"Did you check to see if your brass was split?"

Highly unlikely.
 
It’s ammo variation combined with the way Smith cuts their rimfire chambers. It is not an uncommon problem and is not necessarily a problem with the way your gun was made. If you do nothing, it might become an intermittent problem but it’s unlikely to disappear totally. The fix is to run a reamer into the chambers. Smith probably won’t do that when you send the gun back. If you have a gunsmith near you, it is a simple and relatively inexpensive procedure. You can also look at buying a reamer and doing it yourself if you are a little bit mechanically inclined.
 
"It’s ammo variation combined with the way Smith cuts their rimfire chambers. It is not an uncommon problem and is not necessarily a problem with the way your gun was made. If you do nothing, it might become an intermittent problem but it’s unlikely to disappear totally. The fix is to run a reamer into the chambers. Smith probably won’t do that when you send the gun back. If you have a gunsmith near you, it is a simple and relatively inexpensive procedure. It’s ammo variation combined with the way Smith cuts their rimfire chambers. It is not an uncommon problem and is not necessarily a problem with the way your gun was made. If you do nothing, it might become an intermittent problem but it’s unlikely to disappear totally. The fix is to run a reamer into the chambers. Smith probably won’t do that when you send the gun back. If you have a gunsmith near you, it is a simple and relatively inexpensive procedure. You can also look at buying a reamer and doing it yourself if you are a little bit mechanically inclined."

... "You can also look at buying a reamer and doing it yourself if you are a little bit mechanically inclined"

Yikes! ... That would void the factory warranty, and create more problems for the owner. What would happen if the quick fix gets botched or a mistake happens?? I think the solution is to send it back and let S&W handle the issue. A proper solution and fix is needed. Like I said, it will get resolved sooner than you think. I would rather wait it out for weeks. Patience is a virtue.
 
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Data said:
Yikes! ... That would void the factory warranty, and create more problems for the owner. What would happen if the quick fix gets botched or mistake happens?? I think the solution is to send back, and let S&W handle the issue. A proper solution and fix is needed. Like I said, it will get resolved sooner than you think. I would rather wait it out for weeks. Patience is a virtue here.
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It's not open heart surgery. In the unlikely event it gets botched, worse case, you buy a new cylinder and start over. My point is that it is unlikely that the warranty is going to fix this problem and it is a very common issue with a very common fix. If you are ham handed with tools and don't trust yourself, bring it to someone who can fix it. Almost everyone I know shooting 22 revolvers, and that includes non Smith guns, end up reaming the chambers.
 
"It's not open heart surgery. In the unlikely event it gets botched, worse case, you buy a new cylinder and start over. My point is that it is unlikely that the warranty is going to fix this problem and it is a very common issue with a very common fix. If you are ham-handed with tools and don't trust yourself, bring it to someone who can fix it. Almost everyone I know shooting 22 revolvers, and that includes non-Smith guns, end up reaming the chambers."

You're right it's not open-heart surgery. To me, it's about avoiding a future heartache ...

Why should the original poster have to shell out (more) money to fix the existing problem when he can have it covered under S&W's warranty? Economic feasibility is in order here. Hence, why spend an additional amount on the necessary tools and perhaps a new cylinder ... we're talking several hundred dollars here on top of the purchase price. It doesn't make sense. Plus, you risk and possibly void the factory warranty. It's akin to wrecking your car, and then avoiding paying an x amount deductible to save money and doing shoddy work yourself. Also, there isn't a living soul on this forum who precisely knows what the factory specs are... Unless he or she worked for S&W. As far as I can see not one person has stepped forward and given precise details as to how to properly ream the cylinder chamber. I would rather let the professionals do the work, ya know, the people who do it for a living instead. Well, that is how I see it.

PS: I hope the original poster sends his revolver back to S&W and let them deal with it under warranty.
 
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Just thinking out loud here....is it possible that whatever tooling S&W uses to cut the cylinder bores was at the end of its service life and the chambers were cut slightly undersized? Maybe the OP's two revolvers were cut with different tools?

Edit: I guess that doesn't make sense now that I think about it a second time since the OP said the first 250 rounds were trouble free.
 
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toad67 said:
Did you check to see if your brass was split?
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The brass looked fine.

Data said:
I think the solution is to send it back and let S&W handle the issue. A proper solution and fix is needed. Like I said, it will get resolved sooner than you think. I would rather wait it out for weeks. Patience is a virtue.
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Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I don't carry this gun, and I'm fine with letting things take their proper course.
 
Data said:


Why should the original poster have to shell out (more) money to fix the existing problem when he can have it covered under S&W's warranty? Economic feasibility is in order here. Hence, why spend an additional amount on the necessary tools and perhaps a new cylinder ... we're talking several hundred dollars here on top of the purchase price. It doesn't make sense. Plus, you risk and possibly void the factory warranty. It's akin to wrecking your car, and then avoiding paying an x amount deductible to save money and doing shoddy work yourself. Also, there isn't a living soul on this forum who precisely knows what the factory specs are... Unless he or she worked for S&W. As far as I can see not one person has stepped forward and given precise details as to how to properly ream the cylinder chamber. I would rather let the professionals do the work, ya know, the people who do it for a living instead. Well, that is how I see it.

PS: I hope the original poster sends his revolver back to S&W and let them deal with it under warranty.
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https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.1-Rimfire-2018-Approved-2018-06-13.pdf

Look at page 15 and you will find the factory specs used to ream those chambers. The problem is that sometimes, lots of time actually, the ammo falls outside the specs. Mostly with rimfires it is because a healed bullet is used and between variations in the diameter and variations in lubrication on the outside of the bullet, along with variations in the brass forward of the rim, you often end up with a cartridge on the outside of the chamber specs. It's an issue with the mass production of the ammo and has been since they started producing it in 1857. By reaming the chambers, more room is made to accommodate those bigger cartridges. What they will do when the gun is sent back is check to see that the chambers are within those specs you looked at on page 15. I'm going to guess that they are. The gun will be returned to the OP and the problem will still be there. It's around 100 bucks for a reamer and after fixing the problem, you still have the reamer if you or a friend ever needs to do it again. I can't imagine a gunsmith charging more than that as it's about a 20 minuet job. The OP can do what he want's but he came here looking for options and that's what he's getting.
 
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