Last year I purchased online a new S&W 10-14. The double action was very rough, so I returned to S&W unfired. Two months later S&W replaced the entire revolver. The replacement was perfect in every way, in fact equal or superior to the many older Model 10 HB I have owned and shot in the past decades. Shoots to the sights out to 50 yards, quite accurate. After several hundred rounds it's proven to be excellent in every way.

So I figured it was time to try a new Model 36-10, despite having a peck of older I & J frames. These are rather difficult to find, with S&W selling mostly aluminium and scandium frame guns. Ordered one online from a well-known reputable wholesaler, and picked it up today. From all appearances, packaging, and lack of firing evidence, it appears NIB.

Well it looks like past is prologue. The barrel end at the forcing cone looks like it was cut with crooked hacksaw, which thereafter started chewing up on the cylinder face.

Yes, it's going back to the factory.

* UPDATES in Posts #45 and #51.

** Final UPDATE: 4months and 61 posts later - Resolved!

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Well that looks downright horrendous. How something that cosmetically screwed leaves the factory boggles the mind.

I also still can't get over how bad the J-frame reshape to accommodate the frame-mounted firing pin and internal lock looks compared to the older models.

Just look at that angle near the hammer and compare the two!

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AKA SixToEight

Sorry to say this here on SWF, but I am absolutely convinced that a person can no longer "order" a new S&W. The QC is just too flaky. I've picked up two J's later over-the-counter. Both are near perfect mechanically, although I did find a small dent/gouge just above the sideplate on the 637. I notice it every time I pick it up, but I bought it to carry and shoot anyway so machts nichts ...

IMHO I truly believe that today’s S&W has been a major contributor as to WHY prices of used S&W have retained their value and still command such high prices. If one could simply purchase a new revolver made properly then why would people seek out used guns with no warranty and possible issues? Since the used market is higher than ever I believe it is because to get properly made revolvers we must venture into the vintage market and many times pay more than a brand new gun. Pathetic, IMHO!!

I wonder if the quality will improve once the move to Tennessee is finalized.

Could be that Southern employees may have a better wok ethic, more "gun training", like their jobs better, etc. but I believe the main issue is in the CEO's office. Just my opinion, but quality resonates from the top - down.

I bought a new 27-9 and 36-10 over a decade ago. They were in perfect new condition when I received them and since then they’ve both put thousands of trouble free rounds down range. Perhaps I was just lucky or perhaps S&W’s quality wasn’t as bad then as it is now. As much as I’d like to buy more new Smith revolvers, I’m very reluctant to do so now having read all the horror stories. And I doubt the move to TN will do anything to improve quality — that’s a corporate culture that has to come from the top.

So what did I do to scratch the new revolver itch? A few months ago I purchased a new Colt Python with the 4.25” barrel. Sad to say, that revolver now sits at the Colt plant in East Hartford, CT with a cylinder that binds on the forcing cone.

It’s all such a crying shame.

Quality is only as good as what the company is willing to scrap.

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Stang1911

Good old quality control at S&W!! Pretty sad.

Looky dat! I thinks one of ar gradjuites here from Bubba's Skool of Kitchin Table Gunsmithin done got a job at Smit & Wesson.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

NY-1 said
I also still can't get over how bad the J-frame reshape to accommodate the frame-mounted firing pin and internal lock looks compared to the older models.

Only the N frame revolvers have the space to include those "improvements". I don't care for the lock simply because it looks bad. The classic shape of the J,K and L frames is ruined by it. The frame mounted firing pin I can live with.

I called S&W Customer Service today. Even that has changed. Before an RMA would be issued, the rep wanted pics of the defects emailed to the S&W "QA" mailbox, so a supervisor could evaluate the defect first. After that evaluation, I will be contacted with a response.

Wasn't like this 20 years ago when I went through the factory armorer school.

Name one classic American firearm brand that has been improved by its move to the South.

That is a shame. As the technology goes up, the quality goes down. I don't think it's supposed to work like that.

While the new S&W headquarters will soon open in Tenn. The fact remains that revolver production will remain in Mass. and poor quality control will still be a problem. How your J frame could leave the factory with its condition is beyond me.

I was a businessman, manufacturer and owner of my own business for 30+ years. I was the most critical of anyone on my staff and they KNEW I would randomly inspect product as many times a day as I possibly could. I would not stand for inferior work! I'd rather throw something that cost me money in the garbage than to deliver it to a customer, have to make excuses and at the end of the day have it cost me even more by having to replace or re-do it. To me QC is job ONE! Anyone in manufacturing who doesn't understand that might want to think about another career.

My price structure was fair but I was by no means the cheapest guy in my industry. That didn't seem to matter as my customers always knew they got more than they could anywhere else and they would have no QC issues. I guess the small premium I charged was more than made up for by what we made. That is how I ran my business and that the ethic I expect when buying goods. In all but a few exceptions I am willing to pay a bit more for the best quality.

Keep us posted on your trials and tribulations of this! Hope it is not a fiasco!

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

The change to the frame profile is a buzz killer and deal breaker for me. My oldest S&W is an M&P Target from 1902. It has an old refinish that is showing it’s age. But it shoots great. My newest is a 4” HB model 64 from 1980. I bought this used in the early 90’s when more and more surplus police revolvers were hitting the market. Nice looking nice handling gun and a great shooter.

I have a model 36 2” SB from 1968. I also have a Cobra that was made a year earlier. Last year when I was looking to add another 2” .38 out local gun store had 2 model 36s. Blue
, round butt 2”. One from 1971 and one from 1976. Price was a little under $500 each. The store had a used 637 and couple of new 642s. I was leaning toward the 642 but decided to go with the model 36s.

I will take good care of the Cobra and the 36s. While S&W still had their share of quality issues in the 70s these older guns still have a look of quality and a feel that the new stuff just doesn’t have.

I am not knocking their new product line. But as far as revolvers go I will always be in the market for older S&Ws and Colts.

A friend retired from Ruger. He said lately the focus was on production. He said he saw some pretty ****** stuff go out the door. I think it could be a sign of the new manufacturing environment.
Then again, my Model 34 from the 70's went back twice to S&W before it even worked reliably, let alone smoothly. Took thousands of rounds and a cylinder reaming for that.

The business climate and the workforce has changed. Largely because of covid, but that's not the whole answer.

Companies can't get workers, and the ones they do hire are morons and/or couldn't care less. Lots of companies lost a lot of money in recent years and some are struggling to even stay in business.

Try to get customer service! It's non-existent. Not just a few companies but almost everywhere. Airlines, national manufacturers of consumer products, local stores. This week we even had issues with a bank and a doctor's office.

Look how people drive on the road today, or how clerks interact with you in a store.

I guess we are doomed. It doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon.

It is getting to be a "Throw Away Society". So their business ethic, manners and work ethic seem to follow.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Bought a new 642 Pro. Dry fired it some at gun shop. Seemed ok. Bought it. Took it home, oiled it up and started dry firing it. Trigger started locking up. Took some advice from another forum and removed grips. Sprayed electrical contact cleaner everywhere I could get nozzle. Looked like sand and sawdust came out. Flushed it until it ran clear. Breakfree/CLP spray next. Works good now. I thought Performance Center was S&W flagship model.

No traditional American company I’m aware of builds ‘em like they used to. Comes from having parts assemblers on the line vs craftsmen.

As an old FFL holder, Had the same problem of forcing cone area not finished properly on LHD's S&W Classic Registered Magnums with certificates. Think I returned 6. They could only offer one to take their place as time was time to get rid of them. Had they offered a discount, that could have been fixed.
They were already discounted, so...Tight times had me to sell all of them I kept.
As NIB, there was never a facial degradation. Should have took a file to them myself, but it was more of a statement from me.

Just like most guys who call themselves gunsmiths. They are not true gunsmiths, they are parts replacers. The guys at the local gun shop spend hours watching You Tube and other sites to be able to just change a part.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I worked for Boeing when they bought MacDonald Douglas. Boeing was ran by engineers Mac Doug was ran by business people and accountants. Mac Doug brought all of their top management to Boeing. It was a whole new work environment, shop mission statement went from "we build the best airplanes in the world" to "when making a decision always consider share holder value". And we ended up with the 737 MAX problems.

That's the nicest abbreviation of the company name I've ever seen. "Mad Dog" was most common, with Mac Doogle Do-Less in second place.

As for the barrel face cut on the OP's 36....Certainly the worst I've seen, but not the only one. Bought a new 25-5 in the '80s where they crookedly fit the barrel face with a file. About 0.006" variation. Compounded by an out of square cylinder face that rubbed in one spot. So it's just the same old, same old thing, just with internet sharing.

It breaks my heart to see the QC on a Taurus better than on an S&W.

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Even older, even crankier....

Shiloh Sharps and Freedom Arms are two American gun companies that put quality before quantity.

A painful reality. Now you know why I collect only vintage S&W's... never brand new anymore.

...I buy old S&Ws.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

OP Update

Returned to S&W with an RMA. Logged in at the factory in Springfield on August 29.

Called today September 8 to check on status. Hasn't been looked at yet. Revolver service is running 8 WEEKS BEHIND for evaluation.

The Lifetime Warranty apparently extends to the repair time as well...

My model 63 purchased new in 1981 had the barrel lug so far out of place that the front of the cylinder would not lock. I got it home before I realized it and went back to the store. They swapped it for another and changes the SN on my paperwork, so I dod not have to deal with the factory.

Quality issues will happen as long as humans and machinery are involved in the process. 49 years in manufacturing tells me so. Is it worse today or is it just easier to communicate it to the world? I don't know.

Your gun never should have left like that, but it did. The wait is inconvenient, but as long as the manufacturer makes it right, that's what counts.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

Another reason that I REALLY miss the 20th century!

My guess is that a good number of S&W experienced highly skilled employees have retired that worked on assembling revolvers and performed quality control inspections. Just too many excellent condition pre 1990 S&Ws out there to bother with new production. The market place prices reflect this, vintage S&Ws selling higher than new models.

Good Lord! That was a Friday Special if I ever saw one.

Very sorry to see you got something with such poor attention to detail and I do hope they fix it in short order.

My recent 640 Pro has been tops, including out of the box, and so was my 686 SSR Pro I sold just cause I like snubbies better.

That thing shouldn't have left the factory in that condition whatsoever.

We are now entering a scary period in time. A great many people don't seem to give a care about their job, the quality of their work, and the customer. Very sad.

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Go ahead... make my day.

Skilled machinists and true assemblymen/ women have been replaced with new hi tech CNC machines in Some manufactures. Most if not all have retired or passed away. Sadly many old , well known gun manufactures have not updated their manufacturing .
I will Not buy a new (1990s to today)Smith or Colt.

Well, I am not going to bash S&W. I have the option not to buy, and I exercise that right. Many of the complaints about QC start off with " I picked this up today", and then a QC rant starts, because the gun was not looked over well enough.

I hate to say it, but I am just dumb enough to say, I really don't know how the lock came to be, and why S&W? Nobody else does it?

What would happen if they just said, we ain't doin this no mo?

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

My recent experiences with the new S&W's has been pretty dismal. I have several pre-lock all forged J frames and will have to be content with what I have.

It's been a good ride, I've enjoyed many fine S&W revolvers over the last fifty years.

What was wrong with your 10–14 that caused a replacement of the entire revolver?

The barrel on that model 36 classic is horrendous.

Good discussion and much to think about. Of course, condolences to the OP regarding that 36–10. Realize the following comments maybe OT.

Personally, I think that US manufacturing is still in the midst of the well-known transition from craftsmanship involving direct-to-material brain, hand and eye skills to the newer world of brain, hand, and eye creating CNC and all the allied processes.

Of course, what comes out the end of the chute is not always which was intended, as the brain hand and eye are arguably at least 3 or 4+ steps (materials, tooling, manufacture, finishing) removed from consumer product production. Naturally, the transition was/is undertaken both a.to lessen the cost of, and b. to acknowledge the actual impossibility of finding/training/employing hundreds or thousands of skilled workers.

What intrigues me is how AI will further impact or subtly degrade this. And instead of brain, hand and eye skills in the creation of manufacturing processes, we will have AI that, so far as I know, works without conscience, heart, conscientiousness. In other words, until AI is much more fully developed, we likely will look back on the 2020s as the good old days. Indeed, probably a lot more fun lies ahead!

Hence, quality control is by people who literally don’t know about quality because it is not in their wheelhouse.

Witness the new Colt's King Cobra and Python, very little hand fitting. They're pretty nice, but there's just no soul. And that's coming from someone that owns two of them.

Just something about the new ones that doesn't translate to pride of ownership as an old Colt or S&W.

Ruger is no better, a revolver gets little attention in assembly. I have noticed the same forcing cone issues with Ruger that I see in S&W's.

Although at certain price points (Wrangler single actions, ie) it's a trade off that is worth considering Not much to complain about with a $180 revolver, if it's timed correctly and fires every time you pull the trigger.

I blame it on all that plastic pistol craze of the last twenty years that's still going on.

My son went to the Glock and the S&W M&P respective armorer's schools, lasted all of two days each.

Other than a hot mess, I don't know. Felt like long ratchets to me - not a difficult fix back in the day. But I received a call from CS, about a month after returning it to S&W, saying that the frame was bad and the entire revolver had to be replaced. Seemed the fellow was reading off a page; other than during armorer school, I've never been able to speak to an actual gunsmith at S&W.

I don't know that there is anyone at S&W anymore that can actually repair a revolver. It's apparently assembly only.

Well lookey here! Got a text alert from FedEx yesterday that a delivery with signature required from good ole SAW was arriving tomorrow, and it shows up a day early, right before I'm about to leave. No email or other communication from S&W.

Only about 3 weeks, impressive!

Not sure what this is gonna look like inside....

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I have no words. Actually, I have words, but they are not suitable for publication.

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What did they do, tale a file to it........

That's not good, Model 15-4ever.

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Heavily armed old man.

I have some old Colts and Smiths which I cherish highly. The big money today for the manufacturers is not in revolvers, it is in plastic-o-matics and AR’s.

CZ is doing the Colt Python right.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Geez! It certainly appears that S&W as well as their warranty service department do not care to make things right. Just take a swing and let it go out in poor condition. Sad, but it seems that this is the way so many manufacturers of goods operate these days. Guess I will be holding onto my old Honda and my old Maytag washer and drier, much to my wife's chagrin. Holding onto my old firearms too, they work and don't look like they were assembled by a crack head.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA