J Frame Trigger job

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Frank usmc

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I have a model 60 S&W revolver 38/357 .. and I would like to lighten up the double action trigger pull. I ordered a pack of springs from Wolf Springs. The spring pack came with (1) 8lbs hammer spring, which I changed out, and also it came with (3) rebound springs 13 lbs, 14 lbs & 15 lbs.

2 questions... 1) will changing out the rebound spring lighten up the double action trigger pull. 2) will using the 13 lbs create a light firing pin strike and not igniting the primer.
 
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#1 Yes
#2 No

In the olden days of my youth, I had an Uncle that carried a model 66 as a Chief Deputy Sheriff. I had purchased a police trade in 66 back in the late 80's that was filthy, but seldom fired. He showed me how to trim one coil off of the trigger return spring to lighten the trigger pull. (Don't do this! Not a good idea I later found out)

But in my estimation, a trigger return spring in the 13 lb range does nothing but help lighten the pull. A too light hammer spring (or God forbid loosening the hammer spring screw) can certainly lead to light primer strikes. You will get other different opinion on this as well.
 
The hammer spring controls the amount of force delivered to the primer. The rebound spring controls how quickly/firmly the trigger returns to the forward position. They both contribute to how light or heavy the trigger pull is.

If you’re going to use this revolver for defensive purposes, make sure you put a bunch of your chosen load through it before trusting it. Spring kits often cause a click when you want a bang. My J frames all have factory hammer springs.
 
Chuck Edwards said:
The hammer spring controls the amount of force delivered to the primer. The rebound spring controls how quickly/firmly the trigger returns to the forward position. They both contribute to how light or heavy the trigger pull is.

If you’re going to use this revolver for defensive purposes, make sure you put a bunch of your chosen load through it before trusting it. Spring kits often cause a click when you want a bang. My J frames all have factory hammer springs.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%.
 
If/when you pull the trigger double action, you're compressing BOTH springs--so yes, the lighter the rebound spring, the lighter the pull. That said, look at the numbers. Then decide how much a 1-2 pound difference in rebound spring rate is going to lighten the pull. The answer you'll come up with goes along these lines----not hardly.

Go too light on a rebound spring, and the trigger return will vary from sloppy to not enough. Not enough is pretty much the same as being left with an unloaded gun for a follow-up shot.

Any/all the spring kits SHOULD be reliable with any combination of supplied hammer/rebound springs. Try them before you trust them.

Try them with the sideplate in place---it supports one end of the studs. Those are studs you don't want to bend.

Ralph Tremaine

As a belated aside, I bought a kit by Jerry Miculek. It came with ONE hammer spring and ONE trigger spring---which is to say he'd done the testing for you. Now this was for a K frame, and the crowning glory of his kits is you can end up with whatever D.A. trigger pull you want--although he cautions against going lower than 7 pounds, lest your gun won't go bang (and he recommends the use of Federal ammo/primers at that level.) (I don't know if he has a kit for J frames or not. If he does, the trigger pull will not be adjustable as it is with leaf hammer spring guns.)
 
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At one time I chased the lightest possible trigger pull. Then I figured out it was better to chase being the best possible trigger puller. While there is no reason for a really heavy pull as long as it is 100% reliable and smooth you should be able to shoot one with a 13# trigger as well as one with 9# one
 
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I personally have had reliability issues lightening the trigger springs in J-frame guns. My GUESS (I am not an engineer) is that the relatively light mass of the hammer combined with the lessened velocity creates a light strike issue. I have found this with three different guns, all of the exposed hammer variety.
 
I used Apex Tactical J frame kit in a s&w 360j 357mag snubby . That revolver had a 13lb something DA pull . After the parts swap DA pull has been an upper 7lb pull and upper 2lb for SA trigger pull . Reliable with a mix of primers including wolf small rifle primers . Rebound spring is a duty/ carry rated spring . Comes with a new quality firing pin and spring too .

Now pick and spring and do some shooting - Any changes are Trial and error to see if its reliable .
 
I put a Apex kit In my UC 642 and it made the gun completely unreliable. Great trigger pull but light strikes and trigger failing to return.
I tried different combos of Apex and stock parts.
The pistol did not become reliable again until I put all the stock parts back in.
It is now 100% reliable again with all stock parts with a nice smooth 9 1/2 lb.pull.
 
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At one time I was on a mission to lighten up my J's. I bought and installed quite a few of the Apex kits with the extended firing pin. I never had a problem with any light primer strikes or failure to fires.

However, I've put the stock springs back in all of them save one. The reason why is that I started to dry fire a new to me 642 quite a bit. It had the stock springs in it and a heavy pull. With some smoothing out some of the rough spots, like behind the rebound spring and the dry firing, I got a trigger pull that I was happy with, without replacing springs.

Another benefit was building up the muscles in my trigger finger. While the trigger pull on my J's isn't as light as I had with the Apex kit in them, I don't need them to be. YMMV.
 
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lkabug said:
I suggest you send many of your favorite target ammo down range and then dry fire hundreds of times before you change any springs. You might just find you no longer need to change anything. And if you do feel like changing springs, your trigger finger and grip will be much stronger.
Click to expand...

Very good advice, but few have any interest in shooting these guns to the point where there skill level will significantly improve. Some see a spring kit (and other after market stuff) as a quick way to gain expertise, but it doesn't work that way.
 
My experience(s) having used ApexTactical and other brands.

Do bag and label each spring with its description and weight. I might remember what the springs' weights and what handgun the spring goes to for a few days, but will soon forget.

I recall installing a rebound and a hammer spring in one J-Frame revolver and it felt great. At some time later I would have bought and changed out my ammo for something different and the gun was no longer getting 100% ignition. Returning to the stock hammer spring cured that issue.

At some time later, again, now the revolver's trigger was no longer resetting due to the rebound spring. Changing back to the OEM rebound spring or one of the slightly heavier rebound springs cured that issue.

It's entirely possible, any specific lower weight replacement springs may not last as long as the stock weighted OEM springs. Keep your original springs (bagged and marked) and periodically test-fire, practice, and check the revolver for reliability.

Regarding the ApexTactical replacement firing pin, I've even had a stock revolver or two experience less than 100% ignition. Some of these extended firing pins may only be ~.005" (5 thousandths) longer but enough to reach 100% ignition with your ammo, but not long enough to pierce a primer. There could be some tolerance stacking on a specific revolver going on, too.

Here's an older thread with some extended firing pin discussion regarding various lengths and brands:
Extended firing pins bad?k A link to an older S&W forum thread.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare
SPRING KIT, CUSTOM-TUNE, S&W J FRAME, REVOLVER
https://www.gunsprings.com/SMITH+&+WESSON/J+FRAME/cID3/mID58/dID263#442
 
The one thing I have learned in shooting S&W revolvers for almost 55 years is that you DO NOT MODIFY THEM AT ALL if you value your life. For those that just cannot help themselves, you can cut up to 1 1/2 coils off the trigger return spring (ALWAYS cut the end that is buried in the rebound slide - not the end that rests against the stud). It will not make much difference in pull weight, but if it makes you feel better, ok. The factory used to sell a very slightly reduced rebound spring, but after having used one of those, and after also cutting original rebound springs as described, I found that it made NO discernable difference, so I returned all of them to original condition.

Obviously, you NEVER, EVER loosen the strain screw or use a lower powered mainspring (hammer spring). The strain screw must always be screwed right down against the frame. If not, it can work loose. Since you have a J Frame, there is no strain screw as the mainspring is a coil spring. Thus, the only way to get a lighter one is to buy a replacement. Since using a lighter mainspring will cause reliability issues when you get it light enough to tell the difference, I recommend you NOT do it.

If you are using the revolver for competition only, do what you like, but NEVER use it for defense. EVER. And, if you sell it, be sure to tell the buyer (if you are an ethical seller) that you have modified the internals so the buyer can take into account the cost of a factory return so they can return it to its original specs.

The very slight improvement you get from the lighter pull is almost not noticeable, and certainly the risk of unreliability outweighs it in a defense gun, and I assume that is what this is as you said it was a J Frame.

You do not get better by shaving weight off the trigger pull. You will get better if you get 5,000 rounds of ammo and seriously practice (not just throwing rounds down range).

Good luck.

EDIT: Since you already bought the springs, you are going to ignore my advice, so I am not certain why I typed all of this at this late hour. Good luck.
 
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kaaskop49 said:
Hey Kevin, how is this done? Ja aren't set up for leaf mainsprings.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
Click to expand...

Correct, J frames are not set up for a leaf spring. But the I frames were and have a wonderful trigger pull. (Not sure why they changed?)

So, setting up for a leaf spring involves cutting away the coil spring rest, drilling and tapping a strain screw hole, finding an Inframe hammer and spring and more which I am forgetting.

Not an easy conversion but it might be worth it to achieve a much more familiar trigger action.

Kevin
 
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