SWFan27
Member
In California you can consider yourself lucky if you get to check the timing while in the store.
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What happened to the Old Smith and Wesson Company
- Thread starter Martin McCabe
- Start date
SWFan27
Member
Ideally, quality will lead to more profit. But there is a balance. MIM parts are not going anywhere. Frame mounted firing pins are less problematic, and they are not going anywhere either. I do agree that S&W's quality control department needs improvement.
Smith & Wesson has always had and needed a warranty department. The changes they have made to their firearms along the way have been due to both costs cutting efforts and correcting problems that previous models encountered. The machines, equipment and the guys who knew how to use them are all long gone. That knowledge and experience went with them. Much of that was replaced with CNC machines.
Even if Smith & Wesson decided to retool and retrain people to make new offerings the way they did in let's say 1975, There would not be enough buyers to make it cost effective. You would probably be paying Korth type money for a new Smith & Wesson.
Doug M.
Member
The comments about these sorts of issues being common now are on point. It is very uncommon to have adequate QC is any business as far as I can tell. Recent history with American car makers is similar or worse. Boeing is a train wreck. All of these stems from similar problems: "Leadership" is lacking and sending the wrong message. I see a lot of low quality lawyers, too - schools are not holding a standard. Try finding an RV under seven figures that is not a pile of junk.
IMHO, the failure of a firearm manufacturer to hold a standard high enough for a defensive tool is shameful. I admit I am grumpy old man with vigorous opinions and no tolerance for garbage. This drive by posting may present some questions about why he is here, but he is right. Not acceptable. Too many places are allowing the tail to wag the dog.
IMHO, the failure of a firearm manufacturer to hold a standard high enough for a defensive tool is shameful. I admit I am grumpy old man with vigorous opinions and no tolerance for garbage. This drive by posting may present some questions about why he is here, but he is right. Not acceptable. Too many places are allowing the tail to wag the dog.
Rock185
US Veteran
Yes, as a long time buyer/owner/shooter/carrier of S&Ws, Colts, SIGs, etc. I'm aware that any could have a problem; some of mine have. But since we're talking S&W, if a new S&W revolver comes along that interests me, I'm still a likely buyer. Haven't experienced any Taurus products, but about 3-4 years ago I bought a new Ruger revolver that had issues. On the second trip back to Ruger for repair, a nice lady there telephoned me and said they'd like to replace my gun. We discussed some options, and I had the new gun in hand in about 2-3 weeks. No, I'm not mad at Ruger or S&W, etc. In fact, I recently bought another new Ruger.....YMMV
Back when steel was expensive and skilled labor was cheap!
Now steel is cheap, and skilled labor is through the roof!
Can you even find anybody?
Ah yes, (sigh) I remember when men were men, women were women, and you could get a...
(OK Boomer.)
I have been really enjoying the thread.
BrianD
Now steel is cheap, and skilled labor is through the roof!
Can you even find anybody?
Ah yes, (sigh) I remember when men were men, women were women, and you could get a...
(OK Boomer.)
I have been really enjoying the thread.
BrianD
Doug M.
Member
Case in point: The new Lipsey's models, especially the 686 MG, are appealing. I have other priorities and probably won't get one in the new term, but if I was making their decisions, I would have S&W ship them to Lipsey's for real inspections based on some of the implementation flaws in the 432UC. A decent concept not well implemented is not good for one's reputation.
TAROMAN
US Veteran
Boeing school of bean counter management.
Nothing else matters to these companies.
Nothing else matters to these companies.
You talking about the company that has made the iconic 1911, the SAA, and brought back the Python, which nobody thought was possible a few years ago?
You gotta be kidding me.
How many revolvers did Colt sell last year and at what price point compared to S&W?
In 2021 S&W sold 232,476 revolvers, Colt sold 65,062 revolvers. Therefore if their manufacturing and quality control were equal you could expect 4 times more problems S&W revolvers. Not to mention a new Python MSRP is about $1400 and a comparable 686 is under $900
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GM too…
Precisely what happened to General Motors, the bean counters made it to the top floor and pushed the Engineers out (Read John DeLorean’s book “On a clear day you can see General Motors”. The chapter about the Chevy Vega is worth the price).
Precisely what happened to General Motors, the bean counters made it to the top floor and pushed the Engineers out (Read John DeLorean’s book “On a clear day you can see General Motors”. The chapter about the Chevy Vega is worth the price).
Oldsalt66
Member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2014
- Messages
- 734
- Reaction score
- 1,202
"The old S&W Company" was dissolved when Saf-T-Hammer Corporation, a company specializing in firearm safety products, acquired the assets, (but not the corporation itself), of the Smith & Wesson Corporation from the British holding company Tomkins PLC in 2001.
Ooh Rah!
Yeah, but I bet you couldn’t keep crayons in stock.
Sorry, but I’m a Sailor, it’s my job to make fun of Marines and then go hide.
Yeah, but I bet you couldn’t keep crayons in stock.
Sorry, but I’m a Sailor, it’s my job to make fun of Marines and then go hide.
I taught Math at a local High School for my last 15 work years. On the door of my "mini-fridge" I had the word: "Yaonyerown" In permanent marker. Kids would ask: "Mr., what does that mean?" "When you leave here, no matter where you are, what you buy/have, or what you need, figure it out because....."
New or old S&W (Or Colt's, GM, Toyota, GE, Samsung, Mahindra......) after they get paid yaonyerown.
Complain if'n you feel better. Joe
New or old S&W (Or Colt's, GM, Toyota, GE, Samsung, Mahindra......) after they get paid yaonyerown.
Complain if'n you feel better. Joe
This is an interesting thread.
I enjoy these type. I always learn something I didn't know... including the range of passion for subjective thoughts.
In linguistics there is something called conceptual semantics.
In S&W's warranty it states:
"Smith & Wesson firearms are warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship."
I don't see where the definition of "defects" or the definition of "workmanship" is explained or described.
Several posts on the forum have described they sent their firearm back to S&W under warranty with a presumed and experienced "defect" by the owner. The firearm gets returned to the owner stating in so many words "no defect was found".
Is a failure to feed a quality brand FMJ ammo or not be able to load 12 rounds in a 12-round magazine out of the box a defect or poor workmanship?
I enjoy these type. I always learn something I didn't know... including the range of passion for subjective thoughts.
In linguistics there is something called conceptual semantics.
In S&W's warranty it states:
"Smith & Wesson firearms are warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship."
I don't see where the definition of "defects" or the definition of "workmanship" is explained or described.
Several posts on the forum have described they sent their firearm back to S&W under warranty with a presumed and experienced "defect" by the owner. The firearm gets returned to the owner stating in so many words "no defect was found".
Is a failure to feed a quality brand FMJ ammo or not be able to load 12 rounds in a 12-round magazine out of the box a defect or poor workmanship?
I have one Federal HST 9mm hollow point out of a box of 20 that will not eject. It is wedged in and will not extract. You can feel the oversized/mis-manufactured casing with your fingers. One out of 20 is not bad but yes in mass produced manufacturing out of specs pieces are going to happen ... don't care what it is..forks, spoons, cars, boats, shoes, airplanes, guns, ammo, underwear, watches, batteries, whatever..........
SnidelyWhiplash
Member
It’s less about numbers and more about the defects and how the company views the issue and how they handle it. Any mechanical piece built in numbers will have the occasional defect…whether the fault of quality control or a defect not obvious to inspection during manufacture. Does the company have a set expectation of the percentage of warrant claims they will receive…and how much is considered excessive? Ideally they want zero claims but they know that is unrealistic.
When Colt reintroduced the Python there were early QC issues that absolutely should have caught prior to shipping…a visual inspection would have identified them. For unforced errors like that some heads should have rolled. It cost them time, money and reputation.
Some potential issues don’t show until the products are in the hands of customers who use, abuse and misuse the product. That’s also when warranties matter. The maker can determine whether the defect is design related or inspection related and changes instituted to address it…or ignore it.
It seems like S&W suffered QC issues during the time of the corporate move. Hopefully these have been addressed and only time will tell.
I firmly believe that statement is so very true..and I hope you are correct that time is addressing the problems.
Many Harley-Davidson dealers won't service machines that are over ten years old.
As I stated earlier. S&W does have quality control issues and believe they would be better off if they stepped up their game in that regard.
Take the canted front sight issue. Put some guns out with very obvious issues in this regard and bingo everyone is eyeballing them and amounts that would never have been noticed are identified and even become magnified. Put out many guns with large barrel to cylinder gaps and people who would never have checked that start dragging out feeler gauges
I have 3 N frames, 2 L frames and a handful of J frames lock era guns. Every single one has been problem free. Joke is I also buy older used guns with issues. I have lots of parts, modify them to suit me, etc. I know more than most about what makes them tick or not tick. Chances of me sending one back are close to zero. I doubt I will buy many more new guns, but,
not because I am worried about their quality, just no interest. I can make ones way more interesting than anything they make
Only thing that would really interest me is a new alloy, M frame 22lr. That would be so cool.
Take the canted front sight issue. Put some guns out with very obvious issues in this regard and bingo everyone is eyeballing them and amounts that would never have been noticed are identified and even become magnified. Put out many guns with large barrel to cylinder gaps and people who would never have checked that start dragging out feeler gauges
I have 3 N frames, 2 L frames and a handful of J frames lock era guns. Every single one has been problem free. Joke is I also buy older used guns with issues. I have lots of parts, modify them to suit me, etc. I know more than most about what makes them tick or not tick. Chances of me sending one back are close to zero. I doubt I will buy many more new guns, but,
not because I am worried about their quality, just no interest. I can make ones way more interesting than anything they make
Only thing that would really interest me is a new alloy, M frame 22lr. That would be so cool.
magnum0710
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2024
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- 47
- Reaction score
- 37
I got a 642 last year, my first S&W and I was totally disappointed. It had a small chip in the barrel shank (outside of forcing cone) and the side plate screws would constantly come loose. They had to be tightened after 2 or 3 days of carry and after every range trip. I was going to loctite them but when I went to I noticed some of the threads were broke. On top of that it had the absolute worst double action trigger I've ever pulled!
I contacted S&W and they wanted me to send it in, I asked if I could have it shipped to my work address and they said no. I had to send a gun back to Ruger a few months prior and it was a complete head ache trying to get it from FedEx. I didn't want to go through that again so I asked if they could just send me the sideplate screws instead. They completely ignored me! I traded it in and let the owner know it should go back or at least get new screws. The chip was pretty much a cosmetic defect anyway. That was my first and last new S&W revolver. I did have the opportunity to get a worn but functional 36 not too long ago, I almost got it just to compare it to the 642 but decided to pass. Just wasn't what I was looking for right now. I still want a vintage 13 or 65 at some point.
I contacted S&W and they wanted me to send it in, I asked if I could have it shipped to my work address and they said no. I had to send a gun back to Ruger a few months prior and it was a complete head ache trying to get it from FedEx. I didn't want to go through that again so I asked if they could just send me the sideplate screws instead. They completely ignored me! I traded it in and let the owner know it should go back or at least get new screws. The chip was pretty much a cosmetic defect anyway. That was my first and last new S&W revolver. I did have the opportunity to get a worn but functional 36 not too long ago, I almost got it just to compare it to the 642 but decided to pass. Just wasn't what I was looking for right now. I still want a vintage 13 or 65 at some point.
