Snap, Crackle, Pop - Night Firing Exercise Disaster

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Revolver_Fan

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Attended a night firing exercise. One of the scenarios involved shooting four shots from a parked vehicle - the drivers side through a partially open door using a close retention hold.

One of the fellas had a S & W Mag-Na-Ported Model 65 revolver loaded with PMC 357 magnum rounds. After one shot he signaled the range officer to stop.

Upon discharging the revolver the blast - despite wearing hearing protection - disoriented him, the flash blinded him and he suffered powder burns on his stomach and chest.

Something to think about. Gee, I wonder what would have happened to his hearing had he not been wearing any hearing protection. An enclosed space like an aut, even with door partially open, has to at least double the brisance (blast pressure). Furthermore, could you imagine if, in real life, he had to fire in a completely closed auto at an attacker? - not out of the realm of possibility. Disoriented, blind and burnt. Not good.
 
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Only once did I ever fire a .357/125 factory round (4" barrel) without ear protection--and that was out in the open at that. Bad, very bad/

At various times I conducted training involving firing from the inside of cars, with ear protection. You could just about see the roof bulge, or at least it felt like it.

Without ear protection you could probably kiss a lot of your hearing goodby permanently. Magna-porting would just be the extra little filip.
 
After reading these posts, I kind of wonder what kind of result there would be if this individual used a 44 special(M21 or 24) instead of a 357?

I am not going to try and duplicate this exercise but just curious.
 
Damn ported guns. I truly cannot imagine why people would buy 'em like that.

1. You are NOT going to feel the recoil of a normal .357 when using it hunting OR in self defense!

2. A .357 doesn't kick that bad anyway!

3. Ported barrels blind you at night . . . when most folks have to use them in self defense against a bad guy.

4. They are loud as hell . . . and you'll lose a lot of hearing using 'em in enclosed areas.

5. You lose velocity. If he wants .38 Special performance, get a conventional barrel on a .38 . . . and for all the right reasons.


Do people actually not THINK?


Good lesson learned, but he should have figured that out a long time ago . . . plus, no one wants to shoot near a guy like that at the range either.

That bozo thought porting it would allow him to shoot faster. Or maybe he thought this would keep his gun from "hurting" his hand in recoil. In the end, he discovered that it would take him right out of the fight. Duh!

He'd be much better off . . . carrying a long barreled .32 S&W Long . . . or not carrying anything at all.
 
Good post tom turner.

What he said - #2 and the statement under # 5.

And the statement under #5, and the statement.....


pretty much nails it.
 
When I was working an undercover operation many, well, many, many moons ago. I was carrying a 3 inch, 629. It was a very rainy, sloppy night in Colorado. I was carrying alot of money, for the drug transaction. And quite a while before wireless mics were what you could consider reliable. As Murphy's law crept in, it was obvious I had stepped into a rip. As the perp in the passenger's seat, brandished the Colt, 1911 .45 acp. The driver acted oblivious to the incident.
Not to let that go unanswered, I grabbed my S&W 629, and almost completely engulfed the would be thief, killer's,
nose with the barrel of the short .44 Mag. Well, the desired effect happened. The 1911 ended up in the back seat with me. Both moron's bowels went into spontanious reaction with the glinting 180 gr. HP rounds staring out of the cylinder, at them.
So, all's well, that ends well. One more time the cat actually landed on his feet. But, a couple of months later, I read in a nationally published narcotics officers magazine, of a California narcotics officer, that was carrying a S&W 629, 3 inch, and had to use it, in a closed car. Instant permanently deaf narcotics officer. A trust fund was set up to help with his expenses. But, what a lousy way to end a career. I never carried it again, in that situation. I went to a Detonics .45 acp. Just wasn't worth the risk, carrying that cannon.
 
tom turner said:
damn ported guns. I truly cannot imagine why people would buy 'em like that.

1. You are not going to feel the recoil of a normal .357 when using it hunting or in self defense!

2. A .357 doesn't kick that bad anyway!

3. Ported barrels blind you at night . . . When most folks have to use them in self defense against a bad guy.

4. They are loud as hell . . . And you'll lose a lot of hearing using 'em in enclosed areas.

5. You lose velocity. If he wants .38 special performance, get a conventional barrel on a .38 . . . And for all the right reasons.


Do people actually not think?


Good lesson learned, but he should have figured that out a long time ago . . . Plus, no one wants to shoot near a guy like that at the range either.

That bozo thought porting it would allow him to shoot faster. Or maybe he thought this would keep his gun from "hurting" his hand in recoil. In the end, he discovered that it would take him right out of the fight. Duh!

He'd be much better off . . . Carrying a long barreled .32 s&w long . . . Or not carrying anything at all.
Click to expand...



+1000.No ported guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
A couple things aren't clear to me about this. First, if it was an enclosed space, did the porting really have any effect, meaning does it matter where the pressure source came from, as long as there was a source? Second, porting goes up, but he had burns on his stomach and chest. What gives?
 
I think that a lot of the ported gun bashing is overblown. If you shoot a .357 Magnum in a car (or in a wide open space, for that matter), without hearing protection, you will suffer hearing damage. Ported or not ported, the .357 Magnum is loud. Very loud.

I recently took a 3 1/2" M27, 2 1/2" M19 & 3" 586 L-Comp to an indoor range. I didn't notice a difference in noise level, when firing the ported L-Comp.

I also don't think that porting a .357 Magnum lowers the velocity to anywhere near a .38 Special level.

Guess that makes me a Bozo.
 
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Suprisingly, a .45 ACP discharging thru the floorboad of a closed car is just slightly louder than ZZ Top's "Gimme All Your Lovin" set on 10 on the car's stereo.
 
Thanks for sharing, revolver fan. I've never been a fan of 357 magnums in a short barrel, in fact I only shoot 38 +P in my 13 3". It is just too much flash and bang for my taste. It doesn't seem to bother other folks.
 
Whenever I read something like this(and of course similar discussions arise regularly in gun forums) I always wonder how much difference a different caliber/cartridge would make, at least with one's hearing. I saw a table posted one time, I believe on this forum, which put the fast .357 loads near or at the top of the decibel list, but the other common rounds weren't that much lower, as I recall. Would our hearing survive that much better after an indoor incident with a .45acp, .40s&w, or .38spc.? In my experience, the absolute worst racket I ever heard from a gun was when a neighbor fired his H&R .22 revolver about 6' away from me. Stayed with me awhile, believe me.
 
I've fired a both a .45 and a 9mm in an enclosed structure w/o hearing protection. I didn't like it, but I didn't and won't hesitate to do it again.
 
One thing there's never a shortage of on gun forums is opinions. I know I've had 3" 12ga magnums go off a foot from my ear in the duck blind without permanent damage. Short-term exposure to high decibel noise is just another boogie man to worry about, when you're tired of global warming (excuse me, climate change!) or asteroid impacts. The only ported gun I've owned was a 3" 657 with quad ports. Wasn't particularly loud. The porting didn't do squat for recoil, but kept the barrel down making it much easier to follow-through the shot. The front sight about disappeared in twenty rounds or so, at least using lead bullets, but everything was OK until then.
 
Sasu-

What were you aiming at? The muzzle seems low for a range target. :confused:

Great video, otherwise.

I have been present twice when a .45 ACP was fired indoors, both in Air Force buildings. (Air Intelligence School and a dining hall, where someone shot a badger that was scaring hell out of the cooks.

The sound was loud, but I had no loss of hearing, although I think I recall some ringing for a few hours. The .357 is louder, and I load .38 Plus P ammo in mine when working indoors.

I hate the thought of having to fire a gun inside of a car. But I'd hate even more having a carjacker shoot me!

T-Star
 
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One missed point

I think there is one good note to add to this. The gentleman in question had the common sense and decency to alert the range official and stop. He didn't attempt to continue with impaired vision and other senses. He may not have chosen the right gun and certainly did not choose the right ammo, considering the proliferation of low muzzle blast ammo available, but he did, in essence, get it right when it comes to safety. I will not bash him over the gun. To each, his own. I will say he needs to consider his ammo choice for night time shooting games. I will also congratulate him for his willingness to admit he was impaired. I would shoot with him any day, just not too close.

Swampy
 
Texas Star said:
What were you aiming at? The muzzle seems low for a range target.
Click to expand...
An IPSC target, mounted quite low on the sticks. Our range has a considerable incline down from the shooting platform to the 25-50-75 meter targets. It goes up again for 100-150-200 meter targets.
 
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